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TOO MUCH END FLOAT

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TOO MUCH END FLOAT

Postby BEETLEBEDONNERD » Mon May 17, 2010 2:43 pm

Hi guys,

I need some advice please. When I depress my clutch my whole crank moves forward about 10 mm. How will I sort this out as I don't think this is normal? I was told this is a 1600 engine from a kombi that was fitted in my beetle. The oke told me I must have it linebored to get it sorted.Will this sort out the problem. Maybe thrust washers the problem? please advise! :zhelp:
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Re: TOO MUCH END FLOAT

Postby fig » Mon May 17, 2010 3:32 pm

End float is the curse of type 1 engines. In theory you can adjust end float by using appropriate thicknesses of the three shims between the flywheel and crank but, in practice, this seldom works. Most end float, especially if it is more than a quarter of a millimetre, means the case has been hammered out and the engine needs to be rebuilt. Line boring is the usual way of making a case reusable, but I think most cases in circulation have been line bored too many times and they should be scrapped. I personally won't trust any line bore more than .25mm. In my experience, rebuilt engines where the cases have been line bored beyond .5mm won't last more than 25,000km before catastrophic failure.

However, IMPI assures me that the issue is not the size of the line bore (some engine builders will bore a case up to 3mm!), but whether it is straight. Most line borers are drill mounted and not capable of boring true. They will also not bore true if the line borer is even slightly dull.

Volkspares sells brand new type 1 engine cases for about R5k if you want to build a truly reliable or high-performance engine.
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Re: TOO MUCH END FLOAT

Postby fig » Mon May 17, 2010 3:34 pm

BTW, if you really have 10mm of end float, then the main thrust bearing has turned in the case and the case is likely scrap.
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Re: TOO MUCH END FLOAT

Postby IMPI » Mon May 17, 2010 7:03 pm

Some things I have found in engines Those which were rebuilt by my friend who used to be a mechanic back when we were still appies (btw the friend now works as a car watch) I have found no shims only one and the metal gasket plus the paper gasket and then all of this fastened with a chisel
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once all of these happen it usually spells the end for the beetle engine

I have yet to strip one of the notorious silver or blue painted rebuilds to find the thrust not severely worn or a new oil pump. they seemed to rebuild fairly nicely and then re used the oil pump as I dont believe that they would use genuine vw oil pumps and every thing else aftermarket LOL the thrust was mostly due to the fact that it was incorrectly set to start with
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Re: TOO MUCH END FLOAT

Postby RICKY-R69 » Tue May 18, 2010 11:12 am

Can't the casing be alu-welded and machined back to specs :?:
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Re: TOO MUCH END FLOAT

Postby fig » Tue May 18, 2010 11:54 am

Type 1 cases are 97% magnesium and cannot be welded. Type 4 cases are aluminium and can be welded and remachined.
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Re: TOO MUCH END FLOAT

Postby RICKY-R69 » Tue May 18, 2010 12:27 pm

Stupid question...

How do you know what type casing it is? I am new to this and they all look the same to me. :?
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Re: TOO MUCH END FLOAT

Postby fig » Tue May 18, 2010 12:39 pm

Type 1 engines are all those engines originally fitted to Beetles, ie 1200, 1300, 1500, 1600.
Type 4 engines were fitted to Type 4s (411, 412) and buses from 1972 (8/71), ie, 1700, 1800, 2000.
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Re: TOO MUCH END FLOAT

Postby Tony Z » Tue May 18, 2010 12:49 pm

fig wrote:Type 1 cases are 97% magnesium and cannot be welded. Type 4 cases are aluminium and can be welded and remachined.


not true - they can be welded... expensive, but possible
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Re: TOO MUCH END FLOAT

Postby calooker » Tue May 18, 2010 1:27 pm

Tony Z wrote:
fig wrote:Type 1 cases are 97% magnesium and cannot be welded. Type 4 cases are aluminium and can be welded and remachined.


not true - they can be welded... expensive, but possible


YES, Mag, can be welded, I've had it done to save several casings.
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Re: TOO MUCH END FLOAT

Postby IMPI » Tue May 18, 2010 1:29 pm

magnesium is a very reactive material and will corode to nothingif enough oxygen is supplied..... hence figs case burn. but luckily its form of corrosion is tough and forms a impervious layer of magnesium oxide. this layer protects the parent metal. the other caracteristic of magnesium is the fact that oil penetrates into the alloy and causes endless troubles when welding. almost all casings that i have seen welded looked like an aero (chocolate) with all sorts of bubbles in the weld
the way to tell magnesium from aluminium is to scratch the metal with a scriber magnesium will complain loudly whereas aluminium will hardly make a sound. BTW there were magnesium type four cases made in 69 but very few.
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Re: TOO MUCH END FLOAT

Postby Blitzkrieg » Tue May 18, 2010 1:43 pm

IMPI wrote:BTW there were magnesium type four cases made in 69 but very few.


Yup I have one of these.
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