Type4 code CJ039456 factory specs??

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pablovent
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What model do you have?: vw westy 1978
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Type4 code CJ039456 factory specs??

Post by pablovent » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:53 am

Hi guys;

I`m pablovent from Chile, I`m new in this forum...I have a Westfalia 1978 with automatic 010 trans. type4 2.0 stock twin solex 32-24 pdsit (not USA version)

I´m try to find factory specs for my engine code CJ039456....I asked the same question in Thesamba, but they do not know this info, since this model was not sold in the USA market.

Any help or info is appreciated

Thank you and my best.



Dawie
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Re: Type4 code CJ039456 factory specs??

Post by Dawie » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:01 am

Type 4 "CJ" 2L kombi engine:

51.5 kW @4200rpm.
143 NM @2800rpm.
7.3:1 compression ratio.
valves 39.3mm inlet, 33mm exhaust.
Twin solex 34pdsit carbs, 26mm venturis.
Similar mechanical lifter camshaft as 1800 kombi and "1700 automatic kombi". (1700 manual kombi had a different higher rpm cam to help it match the shorter gear ratios used by the 1700).
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
"Things should be as simple as possible, BUT NO SIMPLER THAN THAT."
"If something can go wrong, it will go wrong" (Murphy's law).

pablovent
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Re: Type4 code CJ039456 factory specs??

Post by pablovent » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:07 pm

Dawie wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:01 am
Type 4 "CJ" 2L kombi engine:

51.5 kW @4200rpm.
143 NM @2800rpm.
7.3:1 compression ratio.
valves 39.3mm inlet, 33mm exhaust.
Twin solex 34pdsit carbs, 26mm venturis.
Similar mechanical lifter camshaft as 1800 kombi and "1700 automatic kombi". (1700 manual kombi had a different higher rpm cam to help it match the shorter gear ratios used by the 1700).
Thank you Dawie, in the last rebuilt replace the stock heads by AMC USA version 37,5x33, and install a 264º cam, but a heavy bus wit auto tranny needs solid torque in low rpms range..... Now I am open the case again for replace intake seats by the stock measure 39,3 and try to find a close factory specs cam 225º duration aprox ???.... if i not to find a stock cam maybe install Webcam 142 (247-242º). Aditionally needs a new oil pùmp for ensure long life to the engine....Any info parts will be really apreciated!!

My best.

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Eugene
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Re: Type4 code CJ039456 factory specs??

Post by Eugene » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:31 pm

pablovent wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:07 pm
.... maybe install Webcam
I had this done on my computer and it worked great :twisted:
You can never have enough Garages :-(

pablovent
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Re: Type4 code CJ039456 factory specs??

Post by pablovent » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:44 am

Hi gain;

In the USA market sale many stock type4 cams, but not to close to the factory specs, Any stock cam and oil pump for my CJ engine ??

My best regards.

Dawie
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Re: Type4 code CJ039456 factory specs??

Post by Dawie » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:59 am

Unlike type 1 engine, the type 4 in it's various applications (411/412, 914, or kombi), came with a few different stock camshafts. Their caracteristics are different from each other, it's not only "duration". Overlap probably biggest difference, split duration, and ramp shape and lift.

I read your post on another forum. Biggest problem is the stall speed of the torque converter of your automatic transmission mismatched to your high rpm "performace" camshaft. With the automatic baywindow, VW simply used a part which they already had, from the type 3 automatic and 411 car. This converter has a stall speed of only 1900rpm. Code stamped next to one of the 3 mounting "ears" on that torque converter could be "D".

According to VW's spec, 3-speed automatic kombis already have reduced pullaway and hillclimbing ability in first gear to begin with, compared with the 4speed manual.

With the first few heavy 80's shape "Vanagon" shape buses especially when loaded, VW realised they have a problem. Pulling away in 1st, engine would sit at very low rpm for a long time, and there was no lower gear to change down to. So VW changed the torque converter to one with a higher stall speed to solve this problem. Code "Z" and "H" has stall speed around 2500-2700, (Instead of 1900 rpm), which is closer to torque band. This was be from a late 80's WBX engine. There was also an "inbetween" torque converter, marked "K", stall speed 2200rpm.

Even with standard cam engines, official advice was to change to the later torque converter. These also worked well with higher rpm engines, like wbx 2.1.

Locally we nowadays also sometimes have to import spares. Camshafts and followers are mostly reground to standard kombi spec. Type 4 oil pumps not available new, but not a problem. Some modify a type 1 pump or fix/rebuild the original pump.
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
"Things should be as simple as possible, BUT NO SIMPLER THAN THAT."
"If something can go wrong, it will go wrong" (Murphy's law).

Dawie
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Re: Type4 code CJ039456 factory specs??

Post by Dawie » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:08 am

Here in South Africa, most of us prefer manual transmissions. Especially if the automatic only has 3 gears and a non-lockup torque converter. Lower fuel consumption with the manual, and better performance. Although automatics are useful for handicapped people who do not have 2 legs. Therefore the limited experience we have with automatics.

I see you have high altitude mountains in Chile, especially the Andes in the north. Less dense air also cause loss of power.
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
"Things should be as simple as possible, BUT NO SIMPLER THAN THAT."
"If something can go wrong, it will go wrong" (Murphy's law).

pablovent
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Posts: 6
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What model do you have?: vw westy 1978
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Flag: Chile

Re: Type4 code CJ039456 factory specs??

Post by pablovent » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:23 pm

Great explanation and info Dawie, really appreciated!!

Dawie
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Re: Type4 code CJ039456 factory specs??

Post by Dawie » Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:03 pm

Stock timing of CJ 2l vw bus camshaft, vw's spec at 1mm lift:
Inlet open: 2 deg btdc, closes 35 deg abdc
Exhaust open: 35 deg bbdc, closes 5 deg atdc


Stock timing of 411/412 and 914 car which had D-jetronic fuel injection:
Inlet open: 12 deg btdc, closes 42 deg abdc
Exhaust opens: 43 deg bbdc, closes 4 deg atdc

Stock timing of 411/412 twincarb and 1700 manual kombi:
Inlet open: 4 deg btdc, closes 39 deg abdc
Exhaust opens: 40 deg bbdc, closes 3 deg atdc


Stock timing of CU 2L vw bus hydraulic cam at 1mm lift:
Inlet open: 2 deg btdc, closes 33 deg abdc
Exhaust open: 36 deg bbdc, closes 3 deg Btdc (before, not after tdc).
(This hydraulic CU cam is lazier than the mechanical CJ cam, because of exhaust valve closing earlier for Californian emission purposes. Torque dropped from 143Nm @ 2800 rpm to 137Nm @ 3000rpm with this cam, despite the CU engine also having high-energy ignition system and slightly richer jetting).

Remember that there are also differences in ramp steepness and total lift, of which specs were not always available from vw.
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
"Things should be as simple as possible, BUT NO SIMPLER THAN THAT."
"If something can go wrong, it will go wrong" (Murphy's law).

pablovent
Drip
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:41 am
What model do you have?: vw westy 1978
Location: Santiago
Flag: Chile

Re: Type4 code CJ039456 factory specs??

Post by pablovent » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:23 pm

Hi again;

I'm just now in the cam decision: Webcam 73 or Webcam 142?? ....... Will be really fine if there were more experiences like mine (westy auto tranny), I think both cams give me advantages and disadvantages , I just look for a reliable engine and quiet trips to 3000 rpms average...


My best

Dawie
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Re: Type4 code CJ039456 factory specs??

Post by Dawie » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:22 pm

Web73 is a similar high rpm cam than the CB2201 which you have and are unhappy with. Web142 is similar to 411LE/914 with D-jetronic fuel injection. Max power for this engine was at 4900rpm.
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
"Things should be as simple as possible, BUT NO SIMPLER THAN THAT."
"If something can go wrong, it will go wrong" (Murphy's law).

pablovent
Drip
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:41 am
What model do you have?: vw westy 1978
Location: Santiago
Flag: Chile

Re: Type4 code CJ039456 factory specs??

Post by pablovent » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:21 am

Thanks Dawie.....Web142 seems to be the right decision, I want to assume that there are no other alternatives closer to stock bus cam!!....Really appreciated!!

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