Fuel injection rebuild

Give details and pictures of your ACVW projects here.
Simmy
Oil Leak
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:07 pm
What model do you have?: 1978 Beetle
Location: North Riding
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:18 pm

And just to ensure that progress is still slowly ticking over, here are some of the the cylinders and pushrod tubes, cleaned, painted and ready to go!

Image

Just wondered about the ring gaps... They seem a little wide for 90.5s? Also noted a slight taper toward the base of the cylinder which widened the gap by about 0.05mm (i.e. on feeler guage leaf size up). Is this normal? Figured it's to counteract differential thermal expansion caused by the temp difference between head and base.

Image



Simmy
Oil Leak
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:07 pm
What model do you have?: 1978 Beetle
Location: North Riding
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:56 pm

In between some surgery and the inconvenience of crutches, I managed to pull the oil gallery plugs. Will hopefully be able to get the brass plugs and NPT taps I need when I am able to drive again.

Image

I left in the one which extends to the no 4 bearing as I believe it was specifically designed to also restrict oil flow.
Also decided that brass would be ok since it has a very similar expansion coefficient to ally. It's also just easier to get hold of.

I also took measurements to see if I could extend the oil gallery in the right side of the case, and it seems ok, with about 1mm of case material on either side of the gallery hole. Just needed to find a very long do still bit to do it... It's going to be nerve wracking when I get there.


Image

Image

Image

User avatar
Wentzel
Donor
Donor
Posts: 919
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:10 pm
What model do you have?: T1 1977,76
Location: Witbank
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 9 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Wentzel » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:02 pm

Looking good!

I went through that process recently and was also stressed up but it worked out pretty good.

You can try engineering supply shops for the 250x6mm drill or similar size. If you were closer you could borrow mine.


Oxyboxer Project

Never Ending Beetle Project viewtopic.php?f=23&t=35724
Lolette Spyder Project http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopi ... 23&t=32175

User avatar
fourier
Oil Pump
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:21 pm
What model do you have?: '59 Ghia, '77 Beetle
Location: Melkbosstrand, Cape Town
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 27 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by fourier » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:40 am

The engine build is coming along nicely!

You should be able to replace the #4 bearing gallery plug without issue.

The aluminium cases (as you appear to have), do not have the restrictor plug, as is found in the magnesium cases. I have removed this plug on two of my alli cases, and found that it was just a standard plug, like the rest that were removed.

The actual oil restriction to the #4 bearing, is a tiny 2mm oil feed hole, as found in later main bearing shells. Unfortunately I no longer have an earlier design #4 bearing to measure what the oil feed size was reduced from. The size of the oil feed hole in #4 bearing shell, was probably reduced at the introduction of aluminium cases, due to no restrictor plug being present. This 2mm hole provides 3.14 sq mm of flow area, as opposed to the 7.228 sq mm provided by the stepped restrictor plug (5.4mm pin in a 6.2mm oil gallery).

You can also look into getting aluminium gallery plugs. I have used FTF alli plugs without issue.
(o= i =o) (o\ ! /o)

Simmy
Oil Leak
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:07 pm
What model do you have?: 1978 Beetle
Location: North Riding
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:08 am

That's great info to have! I will wait for the set of bearings just to be sure, before I make the final call on it.

I did see that FTF has these plugs, but I am struggling to get them to get back to me. I also torn or whether to just but the bullet on their fittings, or just settle for brass barbs (which should be cheaper, but I have been surprised how pricey the hydraulic fittings are). But I figured I would be doing it on the basis of engine "bling" than for any other reasonable cause.

And thanks for the offer Wentzel. I am not to too phased by buying the bit. It's the set of taps that scare me :shock: looks like they are about R500 per tap, and it looks like you need both tapered and bottoming. In fact, the taps could cost more than the entire set of FTF fittings!

User avatar
Riaan.N
Oil Stain
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:23 pm
What model do you have?: None
Location: Pretoria
Been thanked: 5 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Riaan.N » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:31 am

Have you contacted Somta or you can buy via BMG. Somta has a cheaper line of products which should be fine if its only going to be used just a few times...what I’m not sure about is if the actual thread and type of tap will be available in the cheaper range.

Another alternative is to contact Tool & Allied, but supposedly the Jhb branch is the best one, the Centurion one is not to my liking.

Simmy
Oil Leak
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:07 pm
What model do you have?: 1978 Beetle
Location: North Riding
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:04 am

Thanks for the advice! I suspect I might get lucky with the larger taps. I believe the 1/16th is always a little tricky to source.

Thankfully, I am stuck at home, so I can do a little research :D

User avatar
fourier
Oil Pump
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:21 pm
What model do you have?: '59 Ghia, '77 Beetle
Location: Melkbosstrand, Cape Town
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 27 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by fourier » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:50 pm

The taps are quite expensive, but be sure to also buy the correct size drill bit to suit the tap. I found no reason to buy anything more than three NPT taps (no "bottoming" taps required). If I recall, I bought a 3/8", an 1/4", and an 1/8" NPT tap.

Take it slow when tapping the plug threads. Regularly test the plug depth. Leave about one thread protruding when the plug starts to tighten. When the plug is fully tightened, it should be flush with the case. It is easy to cut the thread too deep, which could obstruct interlinked oil passages.
Last edited by fourier on Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
(o= i =o) (o\ ! /o)

User avatar
Wentzel
Donor
Donor
Posts: 919
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:10 pm
What model do you have?: T1 1977,76
Location: Witbank
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 9 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Wentzel » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:35 am

I will be watching closely as I have to do the galleys also. Let us know where you find the taps and plugs and how it turns out.

Usually I try to buy the tools to have them for next time but sometimes it gets a bit pricey.

Oxyboxer Project

Never Ending Beetle Project viewtopic.php?f=23&t=35724
Lolette Spyder Project http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopi ... 23&t=32175

Simmy
Oil Leak
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:07 pm
What model do you have?: 1978 Beetle
Location: North Riding
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:35 pm

So after looking around, it seems the tooling required is indeed a 1/8, 1/4 and 3/8 tap. The 1/16 is not necessary if you enlarge the holes slightly to 1/8 (the imperial system makes no sense to me... 1/8 should be twice the size of 1/16, but its not?). And I managed to get hold of the guys at FTF, so I will go with the pricier ally fittings for the oil system. Its probably worth while in the long run.

The tooling can all be sourced from Tool and Allied, as suggested, including the 250mm bit. I will try and get those next week. Seems like the bottoming taps aren't required, so I will go with plug/second taps, which should be a fair compromise. And since I need to do it on 2 cases, it kinda makes sense.

So thanks all for the input! :10:

Whilst trying to sort out the AN fittings for the oil system, I started wondering about the fuel side... I am pondering using the newly installed fuel pump and regulator instead of the mechanical pump. Reason being that I would like to test the electric fuel pump, and save me from having to replace the mechanical pump flange which is broken. Just worried that the pressure will be too high for the stock carb. Volkspares wasnt terribly helpful in being able to tell me what the minimum pressure setting is, but I think is 5psi. Unfortunately there is very little by way of specification for the part online:
https://www.c-f-m.com/performanceparts/ ... -p2156.htm

Do you think its worth the risk of assuming it will be fine, or should I just play it safe and go stock whilst I run the engine in?

User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14085
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 135 times
Been thanked: 363 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Tony Z » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:13 pm

stock fuel line will be fine for your power.
I use the 3.5psi CB performance fuel pump on my weber carbs, in all applications, from stock to stroker. I run the same pump in my bus and Angrrr without any issues. You'll need something higher pressure for FI - go to Diesel Electric and get a Bosch 044 fuel pump and never worry about the pump again.

Simmy
Oil Leak
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:07 pm
What model do you have?: 1978 Beetle
Location: North Riding
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:34 pm

Well, the fuel pump, regulator and fuel lines are in already for the FI installation later. Its just a question of whether to make use of them now or later.
My concern is the fact that it will be too high a pressure for the carb even with the regulator set to its minimum threshold.

User avatar
Wentzel
Donor
Donor
Posts: 919
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:10 pm
What model do you have?: T1 1977,76
Location: Witbank
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 9 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Wentzel » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:08 pm

If you need a anything for FI you can have a look at fuel performance's website they have a lot of pumps injectors etc. I bought a bosch 044 equivalent from them and so far no issues.

I misread you already have it installed but maybe for
future reference then.
Oxyboxer Project

Never Ending Beetle Project viewtopic.php?f=23&t=35724
Lolette Spyder Project http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopi ... 23&t=32175

Simmy
Oil Leak
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:07 pm
What model do you have?: 1978 Beetle
Location: North Riding
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:21 am

It looks like i will need to go back to the stock fuel pump. The electric pump is from a Mk2 golf, which means is rated for 5-6bar, and I think the regulator can only reduce this to something in the range of 30psi (the SMax regulator I have has no datasheet or online info, so I am basing this on similar units with similar HP ratings and sizing).

That basically means that its about 10x higher than necessary, which will either leak out the carb or cause it to run hopelessly rich. I dont think its worth the trouble of experimenting. So I will go ahead with the FTF oil fittings and update you all when I have plugged a few of the galleries.

Post Reply