Sorry Variant, did not mean to hi-jack your tread
My humble apologies.
The best system still is the disk in front and the shoes at the back.
You do not want the back to lock up before the front, or you will start spinning.
That is way most cars still have shoes at the back
When running disks all round, then the back disk must be smaller, and you have to have a regulator between the front and back to control lock up.
Now lets give back this thread to its rightful owner, sorry again.
Herman
Notchback brake upgrade
- retrovan
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Re: Notchback brake upgrade
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
-
- Oil Pump
- Posts: 267
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:11 pm
- What model do you have?: '69 316 & 362
- Location: South Africa
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Re: Notchback brake upgrade
Whilst looking through this tread, it occurred to me that I never posted pictures of the new Varga brake discs and ATE calipers. So here they are:
The blue muti on the brake pads is Liqui Moly 'Bremsen Anti-Quietch Paste' and it does a great job of preventing brake squeal.
The blue muti on the brake pads is Liqui Moly 'Bremsen Anti-Quietch Paste' and it does a great job of preventing brake squeal.
Last edited by Variant on Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Adriaan
---------
'69 1600L Squareback Automatic
'69 1600A Notchback
---------
'69 1600L Squareback Automatic
'69 1600A Notchback
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- Oil Pump
- Posts: 267
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:11 pm
- What model do you have?: '69 316 & 362
- Location: South Africa
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 2 times
Re: Notchback brake upgrade - brake test results
I've been threatening to post a discussion of the latest brake test results for a while too, so here goes:
To recap: The brake test was done at Safety Brake & Clutch in Randburg using a Bosch brake dynomometer. The machine expresses the braking effort in kg of each road wheel as a function of the increase in torque on the motors driving the car's wheels as the brakes are applied. Maximum brake effort is achieved just prior to the brakes locking up and causing the wheels to slip on the rollers. Consequently the higher the weight on the axle being tested the higher the indicated maximum brake effort. In the case of a rear engine car where more weight is on the rear axle the rear brakes will therefore indicate a higher maximum brake effort than the front brakes. The opposite will occur when testing a front engine car. This also explains why in the Notch's case, it appears to be braking more on the right hand wheels as that is where the (considerable) weight of the technician doing the test was concentrated. Brake efficiency is calculated as the percentage of the total braking effort from all 4 wheels divided by the vehicle's test weight - which is the unladen weight plus that of the driver/technician doing the test. This test procedure and calculation comforms to UK MOT standards.
2017 raw data:
LF 175 RF 190
LR 190 RR 200
2017 calculated brake efficiency:
Total brake effort in kg
----------------------------- x 100%
Vehicle test weight in kg
755 kg
--------- x 100% = 72.94%
1035 kg
2011 raw data:
LF 130 RF 155
LR 180 RR 180
2011 calculated brake efficiency:
645 kg
--------- x 100% = 63.24%
1020 kg
That is a 9.7% improvement in overall brake efficiency. Lets make that 10%!!
Also note how the new ATE calipers with 42mm pistons have increased the maximum brake force available at the front wheels compared to the EMPI calipers which had 40.6mm pistons. Using proper ATE disc pads vs the Chinese junk that came with the EMPI setup no doubt also contributes to the higher figure. That should also mean that the front/rear brake bias has been restored to where it should be. I also understand from the sales people at my local spares shop that ATE now uses a softer compound for their brake pads which makes the braking action a bit more progressive and this might move the brake bias a little further to the front, which isn't a bad thing for a rear engine car.
Overall, I am very happy with how this conversion turned out and I have learnt a lot in the process. Yes, it has been a rather costly affair - since I had to pay some 'school fees' along the way; but it was so worth spending the bucks and getting the proper ATE calipers and tandem master cylinder.
To recap: The brake test was done at Safety Brake & Clutch in Randburg using a Bosch brake dynomometer. The machine expresses the braking effort in kg of each road wheel as a function of the increase in torque on the motors driving the car's wheels as the brakes are applied. Maximum brake effort is achieved just prior to the brakes locking up and causing the wheels to slip on the rollers. Consequently the higher the weight on the axle being tested the higher the indicated maximum brake effort. In the case of a rear engine car where more weight is on the rear axle the rear brakes will therefore indicate a higher maximum brake effort than the front brakes. The opposite will occur when testing a front engine car. This also explains why in the Notch's case, it appears to be braking more on the right hand wheels as that is where the (considerable) weight of the technician doing the test was concentrated. Brake efficiency is calculated as the percentage of the total braking effort from all 4 wheels divided by the vehicle's test weight - which is the unladen weight plus that of the driver/technician doing the test. This test procedure and calculation comforms to UK MOT standards.
2017 raw data:
LF 175 RF 190
LR 190 RR 200
2017 calculated brake efficiency:
Total brake effort in kg
----------------------------- x 100%
Vehicle test weight in kg
755 kg
--------- x 100% = 72.94%
1035 kg
2011 raw data:
LF 130 RF 155
LR 180 RR 180
2011 calculated brake efficiency:
645 kg
--------- x 100% = 63.24%
1020 kg
That is a 9.7% improvement in overall brake efficiency. Lets make that 10%!!
Also note how the new ATE calipers with 42mm pistons have increased the maximum brake force available at the front wheels compared to the EMPI calipers which had 40.6mm pistons. Using proper ATE disc pads vs the Chinese junk that came with the EMPI setup no doubt also contributes to the higher figure. That should also mean that the front/rear brake bias has been restored to where it should be. I also understand from the sales people at my local spares shop that ATE now uses a softer compound for their brake pads which makes the braking action a bit more progressive and this might move the brake bias a little further to the front, which isn't a bad thing for a rear engine car.
Overall, I am very happy with how this conversion turned out and I have learnt a lot in the process. Yes, it has been a rather costly affair - since I had to pay some 'school fees' along the way; but it was so worth spending the bucks and getting the proper ATE calipers and tandem master cylinder.
Adriaan
---------
'69 1600L Squareback Automatic
'69 1600A Notchback
---------
'69 1600L Squareback Automatic
'69 1600A Notchback