RetroVans's "Fugly Braziliamba" Project

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Tony Z
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Re: RetroVans's "Fugly Braziliamba" Project

Post by Tony Z »

all I know is that nothing is as smooth as individual intake runners. 1 carb per cylinder.
Also, because you tune each cylinder and there is no cross sharing, then each one is set up as it wants to be. Smoother, better fuel economy and more performance if you need it.
O yes, lets not forget the sound!!


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Re: RetroVans's "Fugly Braziliamba" Project

Post by retrovan »

As a man who's opinion I value highly, I need to ask you one thing.
Can you say that the extra cost is warranted.
I fully agree with all you said, but I cannot in my mind justify the extra cost, maybe its the Hollander in me.. :oops:
Or maybe you can convince me otherwise..... :shock:

Herman
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Re: RetroVans's "Fugly Braziliamba" Project

Post by Tony Z »

I would say stick with whatever makes you happy. I am happy with the IDFs
Buying the carbs second hand and the rest new wont set you back much more than 4K and can come a lot cheaper if you keep your eyes open.

See if you can borrow a set somewhere and try it.
Two singles are better than 1 single or even 1 dual carb, but twin duals are best. IMO

If you are buying them new, and you are staying stockish, then I would have to say you dont need the IDFs if you dont want the extra cost.
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Re: RetroVans's "Fugly Braziliamba" Project

Post by retrovan »

Thanks Tony, :wink:

Spoken right to my own wallet,.... I mean,,,... my own hart. :lol:

As I am the type of guy that will deal direct with Dellorto, have them do my carb's custom, jet and bench test them before shipping, with all info of engine, altitude, fuel, conditions, and required settings, I would say that I would once again stick with the 34ICT's, but you have a convincing argument, and had I been more plush with cash, like you perhaps, :TIC: :wink: I would have gone that way.
Who knows, maybe one day when I am big..... :roll:
Thanks.... :D

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Re: RetroVans's "Fugly Braziliamba" Project

Post by Ron&Gill »

Tony Z wrote:all I know is that nothing is as smooth as individual intake runners. 1 carb per cylinder.
Also, because you tune each cylinder and there is no cross sharing, then each one is set up as it wants to be. Smoother, better fuel economy and more performance if you need it.
O yes, lets not forget the sound!!
Now, all of that is counter-intuitive... :lol: Pulsation is not a friend of smooth flow, and four carbs on four cylinders is that. One carb on four cylinders, where there is almost a constant flow should be better, but I also swear by the IDFs. I love them, and yes, the sound...

The ICHs were used on Ford Escorts, and they were good. The problem on buggies is the orientation, which is 90deg off that on a Ford, so going uphill affects the float chamber, ask HR-Mandy... :lol:
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Re: RetroVans's "Fugly Braziliamba" Project

Post by hitlers revenge »

so going uphill affects the float chamber, ask HR-Mandy...
Ron isn't that a bit harsh??? Surely Herman is not gonna take "Fugly" up a 80 degree incline!!!!!!!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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This incident happened many moons ago. When Ron was caught in a catch 22. Lucky enough when Ron saw the outline of the "Pearly Gates " he stopped the buggy hoping to reverse back down but when looking in the mirrors he saw the "Big Hole" of Kimberley behind him.
Why do we celebrate the guy that invented the wheel??
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Re: RetroVans's "Fugly Braziliamba" Project

Post by Ron&Gill »

Ah yes, but I didn't stop, the ICHs stopped me. Dead. And I didn't reverse either, I slid backwards with all four wheels locked up. Luckily there was the donga... :lol: :lol:
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Re: RetroVans's "Fugly Braziliamba" Project

Post by Dawie »

Of course 4 individual runners will be the ultimate, but ICT's and PDSIT's are so "similar sized" to each other.

Before giving up on the solexes:

Remember that:
1) The 34PDSIT2/3's NEEDS the standard 230mm distance of intake ducting to the air filter. Nothing shorter. The 1800 and 2l versions of those carbs have a special version of the pressed in emulsion tube that compensates for the pulsing effect interaction with standard factory aircleaner setup. Removing this or fitting individual filters severely upsets jetting and will cause lean running at full throttle, loss of power and overheating. This is especially true at sea level altitude. The earlier 1700 version of those carbs have a different emulsion tube and is slightly more tolerant to this.

2) Needle and seat should be 1.2mm (standard factory size) and not 1.5mm as supplied in some pirate kits. Some pirate needle& seats are poor quality. The old genuine needle& seat can be lapped by using brasso and a hand drill and some ingenuity.

3) Float level is critical and should be no closer to the top than 14mm, 15mm is still acceptable. (Some old specs mentioned 12-14mm, and 12 or 13mm give problems).

4) Fuel pressure: These carbs have tiny floats and are hyper- sensitive to fuel pressure.
Forget about the 3.5 psi max specs you read in some manuals. Rather use 1.5- 2 psi or 2.5 psi as absolute max limit. Proper fuel pressure regulator will help. (Not those "fuel restrictors" sold as "regulators"). That said, i also still have one of those old "Facet clackers" on my type 4/split kombi application, and operation is borderline. Must still make a plan there. (Gearbox bracket is in the way of standard type 4 mechanical fuel pump mounting position).

5) If your Brasilia has a brake booster, test for vacuum leaks at the non return valve area at the back, also inspect the flexible front pipe at the booster.

But: Point number 1 is most important. As in do'nt even start the engine without at least those two 90 degree air cleaner extension elbows attached. The difference is vast. For lowest fuel consumption, also retain the factory hot air intake pre- heating system. (Which only operates at light loads and automatically reverts to cold air at full throttle).
Staying Aircooled is so much nicer.
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
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Re: RetroVans's "Fugly Braziliamba" Project

Post by retrovan »

Dawie wrote:Of course 4 individual runners will be the ultimate, but ICT's and PDSIT's are so "similar sized" to each other. The reason I like the Weber ICT, is its simplicity, I do feel the Solex is to complex for a car as a VW

Before giving up on the solexes:

Remember that:
1) The 34PDSIT2/3's NEEDS the standard 230mm distance of intake ducting to the air filter. Nothing shorter. The 1800 and 2l versions of those carbs have a special version of the pressed in emulsion tube that compensates for the pulsing effect interaction with standard factory aircleaner setup. Removing this or fitting individual filters severely upsets jetting and will cause lean running at full throttle, loss of power and overheating. This is especially true at sea level altitude. The earlier 1700 version of those carbs have a different emulsion tube and is slightly more tolerant to this. I am using the STD type 4 air filter se-tup, so no problem there.

2) Needle and seat should be 1.2mm (standard factory size) and not 1.5mm as supplied in some pirate kits. Some pirate needle& seats are poor quality. The old genuine needle& seat can be lapped by using brasso and a hand drill and some ingenuity. Have the float at approx. 14 mm but thinking of dropping to 16 mm

3) Float level is critical and should be no closer to the top than 14mm, 15mm is still acceptable. (Some old specs mentioned 12-14mm, and 12 or 13mm give problems).

4) Fuel pressure: These carbs have tiny floats and are hyper- sensitive to fuel pressure.
Forget about the 3.5 psi max specs you read in some manuals. Rather use 1.5- 2 psi or 2.5 psi as absolute max limit. Proper fuel pressure regulator will help. (Not those "fuel restrictors" sold as "regulators"). That said, i also still have one of those old "Facet clackers" on my type 4/split kombi application, and operation is borderline. Must still make a plan there. (Gearbox bracket is in the way of standard type 4 mechanical fuel pump mounting position). Have the Facet pump on but should look for a regulator

5) If your Brasilia has a brake booster, test for vacuum leaks at the non return valve area at the back, also inspect the flexible front pipe at the booster. Was very hit and miss, so I opened it, machined it, and sealed it again so now its a true shut-off every time
But: Point number 1 is most important. As in do'nt even start the engine without at least those two 90 degree air cleaner extension elbows attached. The difference is vast. For lowest fuel consumption, also retain the factory hot air intake pre- heating system. (Which only operates at light loads and automatically reverts to cold air at full throttle).
Thanks for the info Dawie, will still play with it, and see how much improvement I can get, but I tell you, since I fitted the ICT's to the Fastback, I have not looked back.
I do have them running, but just not quit right, that crisp run is just not there, and the day to day change is noticeable, lets see.

Herman
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1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
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Re: RetroVans's "Fugly Braziliamba" Project

Post by 62vwbeetle »

You still looking for webers? I have a set that were reconned for my beetle project then shelved, have manifolds as well, loooooooooong ones , just need to get a hex bar or new linkage . Oh also have new in packaging filters, let me know
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Re: RetroVans's "Fugly Braziliamba" Project

Post by hitlers revenge »

62vwbeetle, where did you get the filters from.

Are you willing to sell them apart from the webers???

Please post a pic of the filter.

Thanks.
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Re: RetroVans's "Fugly Braziliamba" Project

Post by Squareback newbie »

Looks stunning in its ratty/patina status...:)
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Re: RetroVans's "Fugly Braziliamba" Project

Post by 62vwbeetle »

Ok they the horrible cone ones sorry , empi s****%#*%#<~ t
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Re: RetroVans's "Fugly Braziliamba" Project

Post by retrovan »

Well, fitted new rubber brake hoses, today, nothing wrong with the old ones, well not that I could see, but did not want to take that risk, as the Fugly is going to George on its maiden voyage.

Bled the brakes, and re-set the front wheel bearings, now that we have done 100 Km.

Should the snow at the British airports clear, then the Webers will continue there trip down south.

Hope to have them on for the trip.

Seat belts fitted, and carpet placed in cab.

Wipers and temp. outside mirrors fitted for the trip.

Will post photo's of Webers fitted, and post report of test run.

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
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Re: RetroVans's "Fugly Braziliamba" Project

Post by MrT »

retrovan wrote:Well, fitted new rubber brake hoses, today, nothing wrong with the old ones, well not that I could see, but did not want to take that risk, as the Fugly is going to George on its maiden voyage.

Bled the brakes, and re-set the front wheel bearings, now that we have done 100 Km.

Should the snow at the British airports clear, then the Webers will continue there trip down south.

Hope to have them on for the trip.

Seat belts fitted, and carpet placed in cab.

Wipers and temp. outside mirrors fitted for the trip.

Will post photo's of Webers fitted, and post report of test run.

Herman
This post has not had pics for a looooong time!
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