'72 Deluxe bus

Give details and pictures of your ACVW projects here.
Kaptein
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Re: My '72 Baywindow Deluxe

Post by Kaptein »

Will hopefully be painting the bumpers this weekend, and send the engine tins for powder coating in next week

Thanks
Ferdinand


Kaptein
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Re: My '72 Baywindow Deluxe

Post by Kaptein »

Small update..

I stripped the front, washed all the nooks and cranies..polished and started assembling again

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Got bumpers back from sandblasting

Removed the dents, etch primed, ms, and painted them..

Some pics

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The eagle eyed members might notice, I removed the deluxe trim on the bumpers. I only did this because they are vrot and dented...if I do find a nice set I will fit them

Thanks
Ferdinand
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Re: My '72 Baywindow Deluxe

Post by didi »

_______
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fig wrote: Isn't the favourite game of all humanity, "I'm right, you're wrong; let me fcuk you up!"
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Re: My '72 Baywindow Deluxe

Post by Heron »

Looks like a good find, just need some work. Keep us posted. Love to see the progress as you work on it.
Kaptein
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Re: My '72 Baywindow Deluxe

Post by Kaptein »

Update

So I went to Orkney this past weekend to fetch the 1700 engine that I got from Impi.I also then had the opportunity to see all Impi's cars, museum and all his creations/projects was a very pleasant experience and learnt quite a lot in a short space of time(still have alot to learn lol)

During the week I disassembled the engine and cleaned it a bit but still need some more cleaning.

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Only pic I have of the cleaned parts
After cleaning it, I put it into the storage containers to keep dust out of it.

I sent all the parts to engineering -cylinders for rebore
Crank for machining
Cylinder heads for new seats, guides, valves and to cc then
Rods for new small ends and resize

And when all this is done ill send the pistons for modifications to make them work.

And send the rotating assembly for balancing incl the rods.

I also bought some stuff for the fuel injection system.

I mounted the ecu behind the sparewheel

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And I think I'm going to relocate the battery to the left hand side...just to make space for a airbox on the right hand side otherwise the air intake pipe will be too long

Mock up, just to see if it will work

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I also moded the distributor, I removed the mechanical and vacuum advance mechanisms and locked the dizzy.I did this as the ignition is fully programmable on the Dictator system.Also gave it a good scrub.

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And the fuel pump, a 6 bar pump

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Cheers
Ferdinand
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Re: My '72 Baywindow Deluxe

Post by Blitzkrieg »

Keen to see your EFI install. Are you using a Golf Mp9 throttle body?
If it's too low, you're too old :twisted:
Kaptein
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Re: My '72 Baywindow Deluxe

Post by Kaptein »

Im using a wbx throttle body, I just made a golf digifin TPS fit onto the trottle body.
Last edited by Kaptein on Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kaptein
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Re: My '72 Baywindow Deluxe

Post by Kaptein »

IImage

I still need to weld and tap the second hole to secure the tps
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Re: My '72 Baywindow Deluxe

Post by Dawie »

Remember that the 1700 kombi with manual transmission had max power at 4800 rpm. It had a different camshaft than the 1700 automatic. This was done to achieve better matching with the manual gearbox, which still retained the 1600's gearing.

To help a heavily loaded kombi pull away with the 3-speed auto box, and prevent "hunting" between the gears, a different cam was introduced for the automatic, which made less power, now at only 4200 rpm, and more torque.

Later 1800 and 2L manual versions also got the same "automatic" cam, for standardization reasons. This remained the most common type 4 cam. When sending your cam for a regrind, chances are more than 90% that this is what you will get.

This scan is from a USA spec 1700, which had emission equipment and lower power than "rest of the world" models, but you can see difference in rpms between auto and manual engines.
"Rest of the world" 1700 kombi's made 66hp@ 4800rpm in manual version, and 62hp@ 4200rpm for auto.
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The fuel injected 411/412 1700 had a different cam as well, making 80hp@ 4900 rpm, and same torque as 1800.

To distinguish between different type 4 cams, VW put an identification mark on each type of cam. By now, this means little, as most have been reground to the most common kombi profile.

The difference is not small. Maybe being used to 1300-1600 type 1 cams all have similar timing, many engine rebuilders are unaware of this. They often give you some bullsh*t story like "it should'nt make much of a difference.

I do have the timing specs of the different type 4 cams, but will not burden you with the details, as my post is already getting very long.

The later "square shape" 2L kombis had an hydraulic cam with early closing exhaust valve/ negative overlap. This was done to increase egt for USA catalytic converter applications. This is the laziest of all type 4 cams, it's specs showed torque dropped from 143nm@ 2800 rpms, (solid lifter), to 137nm@ 3000 rpm, (hydraulic).

Some say the best cam profile for a manual transmission kombi is the "web 73", or similar. However opinions may differ.
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Kaptein
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Re: My '72 Baywindow Deluxe

Post by Kaptein »

Thanks for the info, I will be taking my cam and lifters to Van der linde developments and was going to speak to hannes about what profiles he has..I was thinking of doing a very mild grind or same as 1700 fi 411/412 or 914 profile?
Dawie
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Re: My '72 Baywindow Deluxe

Post by Dawie »

Similar to fuel injected 411/412LE profile will be good. But avoid the automatic and later kombi profiles.

By the way... The original basic twincarb 1700- 411/412 car had a different cam as well. Same as "1700 manual only" kombi cam, it's timing is inbetween that of the "auto 1700 and all later kombi", and that of the 1700 LE fuel injected engine.
Staying Aircooled is so much nicer.
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
Kaptein
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Re: My '72 Baywindow Deluxe

Post by Kaptein »

I found this about the web73 grind,and seems to be exactly what I need.I will also be running a 8:1 compression ratio and they say this is the ideal C/ratio for this cam.

Im looking for low down torque,as this is a bus and I dont want to rev it hard to get somewhere.


Web Cam Type 4 Camshaft, 73 Grind, Solid Lifters, 00-472 is designed for Type 4 engines, and it's specs are .426" Valve Lift with stock 1.3:1 Rockers, 262 degrees of advertised duration, and 224 degrees of duration at .050". This works well with stock FI too!
Web Cam camshafts are what we consider a "High End" camshaft, they are fantastic! You can have the exact cam you want, you select the Lobe Center and Clearancing, but these camshafts cost a lot (they are worth it). Web Cam always is State Of The Art in their grinds, they aren't using grinds from 30 years ago, ALWAYS the latest technology! If you don't have the budget for a Web Cam grind, you will probably be happy with a SCAT Type 4 Grind.

This particular Web Cam grind is basically a solid lifter version of the stock FI Grind. This is fantastic with Automatic Transmissions too!

This is a nice upgrade on stockish engines, it's an outstanding bus cam! HD Springs are required! This cam works best with Compression from 7.8-8:1. Power band is from idle-4500.

Stock Lobe Center is 108 degrees, if you are not sure which one to get, 108 is a good choice. Tighter Lobe Centers (100-105) will generally increase low end at the expense of top end by increasing valve overlap. Wider Lobe Centers are often used for turbocharged applications.

The Stroker Option provides more lobe to crank/rod clearance, it's a good idea if you are building an engine with a 78mm stroke crank or larger.
Kaptein
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Re: My '72 Baywindow Deluxe

Post by Kaptein »

I took the fuel tank out today... from the outside it does not look to bad??

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But the inside...this is what happens if you dont drive/start a vehicle for 15+ years

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The actual reason I removed the tank was so that I can cut open the part by the feed pipe is (+- 150mm x 150mm) so I can weld in a plash tray like any modern FI car has and then also weld in a fuel return pipe into the splash tray.

I will still do this and then send it to silvertons for a acid bath and presure test.

Anybody have advise on how to rustproof the tank after getting it back from the acid wash..all the web searches says POR15 but you dont get it in SA.

Thanks
Ferdinand
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Re: My '72 Baywindow Deluxe

Post by Dawie »

What i did to make a bay fuel tank "fuel injection compatible":
My fuel outlet was offset to the one side. Drilled a hole at bottom of tank, towards other side.
Then cut the fuel outlet part from an old beetle tank. It's similar to a kombi one. Welded that over the hole.
Now i had 2 similar foul outlets, one at each side.
Drilled the hole to 10mm. (used to be 6mm). Then fitted a 10mm metal pipe with ferrule in each outlet. As that aluminium nut-thingies got tightened, they squeezed the ferrules and sealed.
The metal sieves were removed, and i used a large common inline filter as a "pre-filter".

From each fuel outlet, a pipe goes straight downwards towards a "T-fitting" below the floor. This feeds the fuel injection's pump. Since doing this, i never had starvation issues when cornering.

For the return line i just welded a pipe to the filler elbow.

About tank treatment. Retrovan did an article a while ago:
http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopi ... nk#p279887
Staying Aircooled is so much nicer.
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
Kaptein
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Re: My '72 Baywindow Deluxe

Post by Kaptein »

So this tank is like a sieve..it has 100's of small pin holes and the only thing that kept this tank from leaking was the thick paint on the outside.

Will go look at a replacement tank tomorrow
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