Fuel injection rebuild

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Tony Z
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Tony Z »

Check your endplay, if it is within spec and your engine ran well, then its probably not worth pulling it apart.
As for the oil in the intake ports - thats probably fuel mixed with a bit of residue from overlap. TBH, your inlet ports look pretty clean in comparison to most - I wouldnt stress about that one.
I dont have Keiths aircooled engine interchange manual in the house, but if I remember correctly, his mild engine spec is a 1776 with 110 cam and 1.25 rockers, dual springs and cromoly pushrods... you better have 40k lying around. This gets very pricey very quickly. I've got a 110 cam and new Engle followers on the shelf, its yours for 4k. Also have a set of Mahle 1776 pistons, you wont get them cheaper anywhere in SA, 7.5k for the set. And then comes the machining...
Just trying to give you an indication...

Your wallet dictates how fast you can go. I always advise to install disc brakes before going faster.
If you budget is limited, then a slight amount of headwork will wake your engine up nicely and not affect reliability. You already have a decent exhaust, your next step is a set of carbs. Dual singles (ICT's) or Dual twins (IDF's or DRLA's). That'll get you up around 65hp (15 more than stock, give or take a few) and yes, that makes a huge difference.


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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy »

Thanks Tony - your response came much quicker than I anticipated it would :)

I fully understand that the rabbit hole is deep when it comes to this sort of upgrade. I have seen similar warnings from you on many other threads, where enthusiasm is likely to get the better of us.

I am not dismissing the idea of a rebuild, but I will certainly take your comment under consideration before deciding where to go next. For now, I just need to get that flywheel and clutch off to check the seal etc. Good reason to commission my compressor and get an impact wrench!
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Tony Z »

I just happened to be online at the time.

Dont get me wrong, I dont advise against modding an engine, but many people think it can be done much cheaper than it really costs. I happily modify engines and my days of running stock engines are pretty much over.
There are many ways to modify an engine, but a lot of people go according to the books and thats where they break the bank or cut corners in an effort to save money. If you have the cash, then do it properly and you wont regret it.

FWIW, I went for a drive in a stripped out beetle with lexan windows and fibreglass windows (super light) which ran the 1776 with 110 cam and 1.25 rockers. This was an absolutely amazing engine for that car. He did however have autocraft heads and IDAs.
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy »

I absolutely agree with the notion of doing things properly and doing it once. Obviously handing over R40k seems like a lot, but having to spend half that, only to have it break is pointless and would probably hurt more. One also needs to put it into perspective... R40k over a few months is really not that bad, when you could be throwing the same money at a new car which devalues itself to about 60% over the life over the repayment period. Maybe I am wrong, but it certainly helps rationalise my decision.

Unfortunately I have only ever driven in stock beetles... so I really have no frame of reference for anything else. 100Hp just seems like a good number to work toward... probably because those sorts of numbers are typical for modern cars (ignoring the additional eight that they also bring ).

The car does have disks (golf mk1 floating calipers) all round as well as Bilstien dampers. We also uprated the anti-roll bar at the front (I think it's about a 1/2" bar if memory serves), and added some extra bumpers on the sway bar to take up some of the play. So, I would like to think that suspension and braking-wise it can handle more vooma. The one thing I don't know about is the gearbox. I haven't done enough research to know what they can or cannot handle nor do I know how to assess the state of the current box. Will be looking into this today and during the week.
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Tony Z
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Tony Z »

75hp is plenty fun and a really good number to have in a beetle. 100hp will surprise most motorists and keep up with 320's up to 80 or 90km/h.
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Wentzel »

Hi Simmy if you want a reference of some more HP I could take you for a spin but I am in Witbank. We plan to attend some events later this year in Gauteng so if you are around let me know and we can make a plan.
Oxyboxer Project

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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy »

That would be fantastic! I will keep an eye out for any events and will investigate club membership too.
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Wentzel »

No problem let me know what events you plan to attend and I will confirm if I can make it. Then we can arrange to meet there.
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy »

Just a small update this week... a couple of other things filled up the long weekend.

Checked the end play - managed to move the shaft by hand by approximately 0.372 +/- 0.1mm (average of 6 measurements taken with a vernier since I don't have a dial gauge), which is 0.015" for you imperial folk. Clearly out of spec...
I can't say as I thought that the engine was running perfectly, but aside from the oil leaks, I wouldn't have labelled it as problematic. I think that would mean that I am at a point where I could just replace the seal and shim out the play and move on with life. I will see if I can get in contact with the guys at German Steel Toys (they look to be a reputable bunch) to get another set of eyes and hands on the engine (no offence Tony & Wentzel) before taking the next step.

Assuming nothing is wrong with the bottom end, would the following spec be regarded as a suitable change when I go about removing the heads:
  • New valves (40mm inlet & 35.5mm exhaust), guides and seats
  • Chromoly pushrods
  • High lift rocker arms with swivel feet - I was thinking a ratio of 1.25
  • Mild porting of the heads (and manifolds is anything more than polishing the recommended)
  • Stock springs given that I am not prone to over-revving and would prefer to avoid unnecessary stress on the system
My reasoning for the choices above is that this is probably the most I can do without being overly aggressive with the the valve train. I also think this future-proofs the engine should I want to up-rate the crank / cylinders / rods etc. to something of the order of a 1776cc engine at a later stage. I don't want to go through all the trouble of dealing with a long stroke crank, so I will probably keep to the 69mm which would mean that the pushrods and valve gear could probably be kept during such an upgrade and that the only further machining to the heads would be to accept the larger bore cylinders.

Also managed to get steel fuel line from the hydraulics place who is also machining an adaptor for the sensor. Compared to the copper, I can see a bit of cursing will be required to fit it, but should be in next weekend with any luck.

I also happened across this earlier in the week: http://joeblow.me/
When I am big and grown up, a supercharged Beetle sounds like it would be a great toy to own...
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy »

I finally managed to get the engine over to Jason at German Steel Toys to take a look at it for me and run a compression test.

What he found was not unexpected: excessive end play in the crank and very little compression as a result of poor seating of the valves which bypass in the closed position. End result - I believe that its a complete rebuild.

I would like to think I could do the rebuild myself, but with the cost of failure being so high and with no one but myself to check everything, it might be best to leave this to someone who has the experience to do so. I also don't know Jason nor his work from a bar of soap, so I would appreciate it if anyone could recommend him or someone else to do the work.
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Tony Z
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Tony Z »

I know GST doesnt build their own engines and uses someone pretty reputable.
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy »

So its been a while since my last post... life gets in the way of projects a little too easily...

Any who... Decided to rebuild the engine (myself :shock: ) and take it up to a 1776 with all the trimmings (well... almost). Going to have the crank counterweights welded in the new year along with all of the machining / balancing etc., but will update as I go along. Tony has been helping me with the parts - so a public thanks :D - but basically getting new rods, cylinders, head, cam.

Having opened the case, I landed up getting a large container and filled it with diesel to clean the parts. It softened the really oily gunk nicely, but 40 years of use and oxidation seems to have caked on a fair bit of dirt which doesnt come off without some abrasion. Not sure if anyone has any tips for bringing back the shine, but for now I am sticking to elbow grease... will see if I can find a long small wire brush to get into the tight areas and between the cylinder webs.

Assessment of the case shows no discernible cracking around the no.3 cylinder or the no.3 bearing saddle (or anywhere else for that matter. The saddles themselves, whilst a little pounded are really not in bad shape. It seems the case was align-bored at some point in the past, but I won't need to have much taken off this time around.
I also cant see or feel any wear on the bearing surfaces that concerns me at this point. With the crank going for a regrind and the align-bore, I think all will be well. Still need to try and take a few measurements though to see whats what and where.
Rod clearance is also just about right in the middle of the acceptable range (0.3-0.35mm by my estimate).

Sorry for the lecture... now on to the pics:

The heads are rather crusty... I think the brownish colour is correct, but I am guessing that for a while it ran too rich and built up that carbon layer as a result. Regardless, I guess I wont be needing them anymore.
Image

The case... the worse of the mess was cleaned off by this point, but even after 3 days of soaking in diesel, a steam clean followed by a wash with a degreaser hasn't returned it to its former glory. I have no idea how the guys manage to get their cases so clean after following a seemingly similar method.
Image

The crank looks fine to me. I also found it was a later-model crank with the bilateral drilling through the centre main bearing... I believe that is a good thing.
Image

Just a pic of the saddles.
Image

And the split bearing. I think all looks good here.
Image

So when the car was rebuilt initially by my dad and I, he replaced the oil pump with an aftermarket unit with an integral filter on the cover plate. What I didnt realise at the time was that it was a 30mm pump and that it was not specced to be used with the stock 4-bolt cam, which needs a longer drive shaft. As a result, the reduced contact has allowed the two to eat away at each other. I would like to salvage the thing, since the new cam will probably be the right fit... my feeling is that it can be welded up and machined back to its intended shape? Any thoughts?
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Tony Z
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Tony Z »

Your case and the bearings look to be in pretty good shape.

The oil pump - I have heard that the shaft is a press fit into the gear. You could press it out a little and recut the "tang" to fit into the cam properly. Hopefully the shaft wont spin inside the gear
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by retrovan »

Tony Z wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:25 pm .... heard that the shaft is a press fit into the gear. You could press it out a little and recut the "tang" to fit into the cam properly. Hopefully the shaft wont spin inside the gear
Before you press it out, heat the gear and spray cool the shaft then press out, and reheat the gear and put shaft in freezer befor pressing back, to maintain the interference fit.

If you press it out and back in with heating/cooling, you will wear out the interference fit and it will start spinning in each other and land up without oil pressure.

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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by fourier »

Rod clearance of 0.3-0.35mm will be a problem. Way too big!
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