Fuel injection rebuild

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Simmy
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy »

Thanks for the suggestions on the pump. I will take them under advisement.

And thanks for the pickup on the rod clearance. Just double checked myself, and definitely is 0.3mm... I suppose the end float problem has also lead to wear on here too. I will have to inspect further and stop dropping 0's


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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy »

fourier wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:33 pm Rod clearance of 0.3-0.35mm will be a problem. Way too big!
After the double check on the gauge and the engine rebuild handbook and some sleep (not the best idea to reply when half asleep), the normal allowable tolerance is 0.004"-0.016" which puts me at 0.014" - just within the allowable limits. Seems that this is not abnormal for a stock long-running engine. last night it sounded like I was off by an order of magnitude, which seems not to be the case - but thanks for the advice all the same!

I am going to play a little naive here and will assume that the new Unitech rods will be "perfect" (I am well aware that "new" does not equate to "perfect") and should at least be a couple of thousandths wider than the worn stock rods which will push the clearance back toward the lower end of the recommended clearance range.
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Tony Z »

The new rods might be perfect, but dont forget the crank might be wider thanks to over eager grinding in the past...
The wider, the more oil will flow through it. Too wide is an issue, but I wouldnt stress about 0.3mm
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by fourier »

When you said rod clearance, I assumed you meant big end oil clearance :shock:

Apologies for the scare!
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy »

That makes much more sense now!
But I appreciate the intent... as a first time builder, I think I can use all the help I can get!
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Wentzel »

Also never assume that a new part will be right amd double check everything. Some of the tolerances are not what it should be.
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by fourier »

Wentzel wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:20 am Also never assume that a new part will be right amd double check everything. Some of the tolerances are not what it should be.
Can't agree more!

@Simmy, invest in some good quality measuring equipment, and check everything, even those expensive new parts. Don't just assemble parts that came back from the machine shop either, assuming they did a proper job... Check everything, leave nothing to chance. Unfortunately that takes a lot of time, but is quite rewarding when the expensive new engine runs properly in the end.

I recently imported a set of steel backed main bearings for my latest build. Fortunately I checked them, and discovered that the #1 (thrust) bearing was tapered by 0.05mm across its width. Dodged a bullet there!

Hats off, that you are attempting your first engine build. Read and measure lots! I'll be following your progress, so please keep the updates coming.
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy »

Thanks all for the interest and responses. Will be taking them onboard as best I can (I know that measuring stuff accurately is going to be a challenge).

Just a quick update... still working on cleaning the case. Holding off on pulling the oil gallery plugs out until I can get a set of NPT taps and aluminium plugs... so watch this space...

In the interim, just still cleaning and starting with some of the John Maher mods to the case. The first of which is opening the window between the cylinder bores to improve case windage.

The cleaning begins after removing the cylinder head bolts. Used a mixture of wire brushes on the drill and a dremel tool. Still can't get it absolutely brand new, but its better than it was.
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Before and after... one pesky bolt remained for a while.
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Not perfect, but much better
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Opening up of the windage hole.
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Also happened upon a neat trick for making a tool to remove the pressure control valves... just cut the end off of a 22mm wood drill bit with an hexagonal drive... Cost R25 at builders and fits perfectly :)
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy »

Invested in some measuring equipment today. Here's to hoping it will help me build a better engine.
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy »

Seems life got in the way of the project again, but things have progressed in bits and pieces despite the lack of updates.

I guess the most important thing that has taken place, is that a bunch of new parts have made their way from near and far into my garage :D Tony was instrumental in helping me get it all together - so thanks once again TonyZ! I will slowly put together pics of everything as it goes together. At the moment however, the crank is in for counterbalancing and a regrind, so I have taken the liberty of trying to measure up everything before it goes off to machining.

Basically what I have thus far is (before machining, without bearings and a lot of remeasuring as I get used to these snap gauges):
  • The main bores seem to be OK, but I was surprised to find that its been bored 0.04" oversize, even if having only been bored out once in its life. Bearing 4 is near perfect (65.95mm), 3 is ovalled (65.95mm on the horizontal & 66.03mm on the vertical) but 2 seems to be oversize and slightly less ovaled (66.02mm on the horizontal & 66.05mm on the vertical). I am guessing that its probably a function the previous machining. A 0.06" oversize bore should fix all of this, but still a little odd to me regardless
  • The crank is not perfectly lined up with the case centreline. It seems to be sunk slightly more into the right case half (by 0.06mm) and is 0.03deg out of parallel with the parting. I can't find any reference values for what an acceptable angle is, but I believe it can be managed if the table is set-up accordingly. I will get Bruce to double check me beforehand as these measurements were a little erratic.
  • Cam bores seem fine, but they are a pain to measure
  • The new 110 cam in the old bearings has a runout of less than 0.01mm, which is fine according to the book. End play similarly good at 0.05mm despite the old bearings.
  • Found that the oil pump drive shaft is about 2.5mm too long for the new cam (so now it protrudes out of the pump casing). This plays in my favour as I might get away with just milling out the difference rather than having to bother with replacing the shaft to correct the damage I mentioned before. By my estimate the new contact width should then be equivalent to a standard pump
Aside from that I have made some of the HVX mods to the cam bearing seats and the rocker arms, as well as having opened up the main seal return passage a little more. Also trialled the new adjusters (which CB decided were not worth deburring through the oil passage :( ).

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Also started some of the porting of the gaskets and the new Heads (Panchito 044's). Surprisingly the stock gaskets dont fit the stock heads, so a little trimming was done to both to make them line up. Still working on the manifolds.

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Simmy
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy »

Also forgot to mention... the replacement Unitech rods are nigh on perfect. Which helped me figure out how to actually "feel" the snap gauges into position. I was actually astounded at how difficult it was to get a good and (mostly) reliable reading.
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Tony Z »

Hey Nic

You'll find you need an early model oil pump. The cam design is early design and you have a late model (dished) pump for the dished cam.

Also, I'd take another go at measuring your case, those readings cant be right.
VWs spec differs between some of the books I have. Heynes and others say its 66.00 to 66.03mm for a second cut, while Bentley (VW USA's manual) says 66.00 to 66.02mm.
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by fourier »

Nice work @Simmy, and some really nice parts you have there!

Looking at your case bores, just be sure that the six main case nuts are torqued correctly. If the torque setting is increased, it reduces the "horizontal" size (like in your case), but the "vertical" size remains virtually unchanged. Be sure your torque wrench is calibrated correctly. Also use the torque wrench that will be used for final engine assembly, to torque the case to the same value, before line boring.

I like the effort you're going through in checking and measuring your parts. This is often overlooked by many engine "assemblers" who simply trust whatever the engineering shop does, will be good. They don't question the "professionals".

Money is never wasted on buying the correct tool for the job, and you have clearly gone some way in acquiring the necessary measuring equipment to see exactly what you're dealing with. Knowledge is power...but often a double edged sword, as it's one thing knowing something is wrong, but a whole different story finding someone able to correct it.

This has been the story of my current engine build. The "professionals" don't expect that the ignorant end user will check their workmanship, and when you do, you realise the work is not done correctly.

Good luck with the build, hopefully not as frustrating as mine!
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Simmy »

Thanks Fourier! Trying to do it right, which is made all the easier with a little oversight from you guys who have done this before.

@Tony: I double/quintuple checked it again this evening. I am definitely getting the undersize measurements on 3 and 4. However the bearing no.2 and 4 bearings are both 66.05mm OD. Looking closer at the bearings, it looks like the wear is uneven around the case parting line which would support that notion. I would presume it was just reassembled that way whenever my dad had it worked on?
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Re: Fuel injection rebuild

Post by Wentzel »

Hi I'm glad to see you are still busy with the engine and doing it the right way. Keep up the good work.
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