Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Pictures of your car/s
Forum rules
Only post pictures of YOUR cars here.
User avatar
Donovan D
Donor
Donor
Posts: 2213
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:27 pm
What model do you have?: 67 Panel
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=536371512
Location: Brackenfell
Has thanked: 144 times
Been thanked: 66 times
South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Donovan D »

Nice one Mr Z, saw you added some new youtube vids.


---------- 67 Panelvan -----------
---------- 56 Oval ----------
User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14854
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 161 times
Been thanked: 459 times
South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z »

Donovan D wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:42 pm Nice one Mr Z, saw you added some new youtube vids.
yea, I've been slacking on the youtube thing... thought I could add my bit to the prosperity of mankind ;-)
Dawie
Fuel Injection
Posts: 2048
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:25 pm
What model do you have?: Aircooled, various
Location: Kaapstadt
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 185 times

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Dawie »

Exhaust looks like a piece of mechanical art. Not easy having some obstacles in the way like engine hanger. "Mechanical art" as in knowing what the objective was, versus otherwise plain artist's effort.

Is it a "correctly paired" 4 into 2- into 1/ or "tri-y" setup? (Paired 1 and 3, then 2 and 4, to match firing order).
Image
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
"Things should be as simple as possible, BUT NO SIMPLER THAN THAT."
"If something can go wrong, it will go wrong" (Murphy's law).
User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14854
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 161 times
Been thanked: 459 times
South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z »

Dawie wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:07 pm
Is it a "correctly paired" 4 into 2- into 1/ or "tri-y" setup? (Paired 1 and 3, then 2 and 4, to match firing order).
Yes it is Dawie.
Firing order was my main criteria (non negotiable), after that was size (slightly negotiable) and then lengths (primary and secondary sizes reasonably negotiable with total length to final merge less negotiable)
I didnt ask them for mandrel bends as it isnt a high performance engine, so I'm not trying to extract every last hp
User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14854
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 161 times
Been thanked: 459 times
South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z »

Not a spectacular amount of things have happened since the last update. But there are going to be a few updates to come over the next few months as I do have a few plans for the bus.

For now though, my update is regarding my ignition system.
For about 3 years, I was using an MSD 5220 streetfire ignition system, which I can say works extremely well when it works. Unfortunately, I had two units fail in those 3 years. Since the bus is supposed to be reliable, I removed the MSD and switched to the GTech which I've been punting.
I drove with the GTech in "standard installation" form for about 1000km without issues. Then I started testing a theory of mine.

I started selling the GTech system as all of the drop in "electronic conversion" modules were completely unreliable. I had some last up to 20 000km, while the least reliable I had was the accuspark, of which 4 units lasted less than a combined distance of 200km, with one failing between starting the car and getting the car out of the garage.
The general consensus is that these drop in modules fail because the beetle engine gets too hot for them. I've never believed this as the dizzy is only as hot as the oil and it doesnt really matter which engine type the oil is in, its always roughly the same temp.... I've always believed that these modules fail because their components are too small and delicate to handle the full spark load which they are subjected to.
Well, since the GTech removes the spark load from the points, I thought that this is a great time to test my theory.
I took my last accuspark module (which I've never been prepaired to use due to unreliability), installed it and have driven it now roughly 3000km without a single hiccup. I'll keep testing it simply because it seems to be working.
And that seems to be a true proof of concept.

Here is a short video of the bus engine idling with the GTech unit and accuspark.
FWIW, the previous videos of the bus driving also had the accuspark unit installed with the GTech.
And dont forget, this isnt exactly a stock 1600, its a 2110cc engine that I built specifically for this bus

https://youtu.be/4dTLcmDtbik
User avatar
acpaterson
Carburettor
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:50 pm
What model do you have?: Winston, a 74 Bay
Location: Parklands, Cape Town
Has thanked: 80 times
Been thanked: 131 times
Contact:
South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by acpaterson »

Tony,

so what have you done differently in this experiment? Moved something somewhere or what?

I had a long discussion explaining to Arno as he also likes using them, and fitted one to my bus, which I had to remove as it failed. So, still running stock points now.

Alan
Dawie
Fuel Injection
Posts: 2048
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:25 pm
What model do you have?: Aircooled, various
Location: Kaapstadt
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 185 times

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Dawie »

Do you use the accuspark just as light current trigger and g-tech to switch the heavy coil current?
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
"Things should be as simple as possible, BUT NO SIMPLER THAN THAT."
"If something can go wrong, it will go wrong" (Murphy's law).
User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14854
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 161 times
Been thanked: 459 times
South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z »

Dawie wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:14 pm Do you use the accuspark just as light current trigger and g-tech to switch the heavy coil current?
Exactly


In stock form, the points will trigger the Gtech and only be used as the trigger - it doesnt see the full spark load.
Now I am using the accuspark to trigger the Gtech, so it doesnt see any load, only a mA signal

acpaterson wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:59 pm Tony,

so what have you done differently in this experiment? Moved something somewhere or what?

I had a long discussion explaining to Arno as he also likes using them, and fitted one to my bus, which I had to remove as it failed. So, still running stock points now.

Alan
I'm using Gtech for all ignition responsibilities and using the accuspark only as a timing signal
User avatar
retrovan
Donor
Donor
Posts: 8422
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:51 pm
What model do you have?: 52T1,68FB,72Bay,75FL
Location: Eich! no, in Jefferys Bay
Has thanked: 299 times
Been thanked: 497 times
Contact:
Netherlands

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by retrovan »

Tony Z wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:29 pm .....
I'm using Gtech for all ignition responsibilities and using the accuspark only as a timing signal
Just a thing I have picked up from guys have :bn: with the accuspark, have been on new build engines.......

Have not heard of a guy having problems on a well run in engine.

This is why I say that the heat of a new build engine is what kills it

Had this on the Fleetline and she kicked out the 1st time after a lot of hills,

then as it cooled she ran again, till the next long steep hill where she dies right at the top and believe me that engine was cooking hot,

did not have a gauge at that time.

OMO

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc (Azure Blue)
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4( Red)
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4(White)
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc (Aqua Blue/White)
2019 MeFusco Beetle Truck
User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14854
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 161 times
Been thanked: 459 times
South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z »

retrovan wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:26 pm
Tony Z wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:29 pm .....
I'm using Gtech for all ignition responsibilities and using the accuspark only as a timing signal
Just a thing I have picked up from guys have :bn: with the accuspark, have been on new build engines.......

Have not heard of a guy having problems on a well run in engine.

This is why I say that the heat of a new build engine is what kills it

OMO

Herman
my 4 accusparks thats only lasted about 200km together, were on an old daily driver engine that I have personally driven for possibly more than 30 000km, as my only car and daily driver from 1997 until 2004. I tried the accusparks somewhere in the 2000's, slightly before Frank moved to the UK and Barry had the volksie braai at his house (but I cannot remember which year that was). Long after I drove it to JHB and back to CPT.
So no, I still disagree with the engine heat theory.
User avatar
sean
Transmission
Posts: 2351
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:51 pm
What model do you have?: Bays & Splits
Location: Somerset West
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 223 times
South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by sean »

Hi Tony.

May I ask why you use a bosch blue coil? (I know it’s silver now but part number is the same).

The blue coil is suitable for stock standard points and doesn’t have any issues with stressing standard electronics. Besides the timing stability advantage you have with this system, it has no benefit to making a stronger spark as it’s still simply a coil suitable for points.

A TCI (Genuine Bosch electronic ignition) coil on the other hand is much more powerful and would cause points to burn or even the resistor in rotor to fail. I can see with my eyes how much stronger this system is if you test a spark plug externally. I have also never had a spark plug die with this system where as with the blue coil I can still get plugs that die due to weak spark.

To me the biggest advantage of a electronic ignition is a more powerful coil to eliminate the failing of spark plugs caused by our rubbish fuel.
User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14854
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 161 times
Been thanked: 459 times
South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z »

Hi Sean

Thats a good question.
The main reason I originally used the MSD setup was for the bigger spark. But due to reliability issues, Ive gone away from that.
The Gtech is/was designed to fit into a stock system and make it 100% reliable again and to provide full spark as per factory.
That said, it isnt designed to handle the added power from electronic coils, so it can burn out due to the larger spark. Plus, you mention the possibility of burning out the rotor resistor and other items... this again leads to unreliability. I'm using a system that works and works well and is reliable.
The only time I can tell the difference between the sparks provided by the bosch blue/Gtech and the MSD is at idle, where I has to increase my idle speed stops a tiny bit to get the engine (with GTech) to idle at the same speed as it did with the MSD, other than that, I cannot tell any difference in drivability or fuel economy.

I have been in discussion with the designer of the GTech regarding a stronger unit that can use a lower impedance coil, but again, I dont want to deal with burned out rotors, cross sparking caps and leaking plug leads...
User avatar
retrovan
Donor
Donor
Posts: 8422
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:51 pm
What model do you have?: 52T1,68FB,72Bay,75FL
Location: Eich! no, in Jefferys Bay
Has thanked: 299 times
Been thanked: 497 times
Contact:
Netherlands

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by retrovan »

Tony Z wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:23 pm ......I have been in discussion with the designer of the GTech regarding a stronger unit that can use a lower impedance coil, but again, I dont want to deal with burned out rotors, cross sparking caps and leaking plug leads...
Tony you know what will be cool and possibly a option to improve the reliability of the old aircooled........

To get a single coil pack, say from the Audi or other car to work on the G Tech

Yes I know we would have to have an extra IC board inside to split the order into 4 outputs, but thats the easy part.

G-tech can send me a test unit and commision for this idea. ........ :roll:

This would make the distributor just a housing for the timing, such as the Accuspark, or other.

HT would be contained where it needs to be and points , condenser, cap and coil become obsolete.

Think Hyundai have a short one just the right length.

Herman


Image
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc (Azure Blue)
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4( Red)
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4(White)
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc (Aqua Blue/White)
2019 MeFusco Beetle Truck
Post Reply