Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Pictures of your car/s
Forum rules
Only post pictures of YOUR cars here.
User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14085
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 134 times
Been thanked: 363 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:13 pm

OK, so maybe its time for a bit of an update.

My ball joints were in dire need of replacement as were my wheel bearings. So, I got hold of a proper set of German ball joints and went about fitting them. Lets just say that this isnt a job for the faint hearted and not having a press leads to things being rather entertaining.
The bearings were simple, old out, go to SKF, get new bearings and seals, put new in, incl races.

As for the ball joints, well this took a lot more time than I thought.
As can be seen below, the boots were shot and they had lived for quite a while with the torn boots.
As per the manual, if dirt gets past the boots into the socket, then you need new balljoints. Why? Well, the joint itself is supported by a special type of plastic or nylon. So, if sand gets in, then it tears up the plastic socket.
The old balljoints still had the VW stamp on them, so its possible that they were the originals.
Image

Image

So, how to go about it...
Obviously start with taking everything apart.
Then use a 4lb hammer and drift to pop them out.
OK, that didnt work.
Youtube
Get hold of a ball joint removal tool.
Set it up and find that none of the jigs work and discover that VW has a special tool that us used to press out the balljoint... so measure up the new balljoints, design and make the jig to take it out and another to press it back in...
start with
Image
Image

and end up with
Image
Image
Image

OK, use ball joint removal tool.
Image

Nope, I see it flexing too much - so add heat... nope, this doesnt work either. OK, keep the heat, press harder, surely it will pop off sooner or later - ok, maybe I should have made my jib a lot stronger - the tabs have now bent out of the way, I suppose 5mm thick isnt enough.
So now what?

I'll leave the rest up to your imagination. And no, I didnt take it to someone with a 30ton press, I did it all myself.
Putting it back together was a simple task however.

Image

I do have to thank @fourier for the advice on how to take the anti-sway bar off the front end. Simple when you know how...
Step 1 - clean the damn thing properly.
Step 2 - bend aft tab of carrier down
Step 3 - knock tapered bottom part of carrier forward - whole carrier comes apart and anti-sway bar can be removed.


I also replaced the front shocks. I wanted to replace the rears, but I totally forgot to do it.

Then I decided to take a chance at the engine sound that has been driving me nuts. I always blamed the exhaust, but I began thinking about it possibly being rocker noise. So I purchased a solid, bolt together rocker arm shaft and set up the endplay meticulously.
Well, it wasnt the exhaust, it definitely was the rockers. The engine now runs silently.
It seems to idle pretty low and quiet now, so I connected a tachometer to see what it idles at. Well, to my surpise, when warm it idles at 550rpm. When cold it ticks over at 450rpm. Heck, no wonder it wants to stall if I am gentle when pulling away from a stop - I need to increase this sometime.

The test drive was a success. I took the van for wheel alignment, got it home, put a few things in it and drove it to Bleomfontein for the weekend.



User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14085
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 134 times
Been thanked: 363 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:33 pm

The trip to bloem went well. I checked my oil level before starting off and checked it again in Worcester on the way back home. I suppose I should have checked it somewhere in between but I wasnt worried, I have faith in my engine.
The only problem I had was ummm, well, it was me, I was the weakest link. The bus ran perfectly and didnt miss a beat.
I drove the 1000km to Bloem in one day, at 100km/h the whole way. With the 1600 gearbox, this equated to 4100rpm the whole way. The bus ran like a dream. I was averaging between 8.1km/l to 8.6km/l at this speed.
Now bear in mind that I left home knowing that my idle jets were too big, but I didnt want to change them and then do 1000km on a set that might have been too small. How much difference can it make I thought...
Well, I really was surprised.
8.x km/l isnt too bad for a baywindow kombi I suppose and I have been told that this is pretty decent.
On the way back, I left Bloem a bit late, and wanted to get to Beaufort West before the sun set - so I drove from Bloem to BW at 110km/h the whole way. Now with the added speed, the air resistance become higher, adding to more fuel used to keep the same speed. Also, running at a higher rpm also adds to more engine losses from friction.
But at 110km/h I was moving away from my idle jet and onto my main jet - this was much to my surprise, at this speed I got 9.6km/l
Was I dreaming? Well, the only way to really check is to drive faster
So I left BW and drove 400km plus to Worcester at 120km/h the whole way. This was 5000rpm the whole time. Now remember, the original 1600 aircooled engine has a redline of 4200rpm. Thank goodness for counterweighted cranks and balanced parts. Once again the engine ran perfectly and gave me 9.1km/l - this is a little lower than I got at 110km/h, but it is to be expected with the added wind resistance and engine speed.
I was really chuffed.

I didnt take enough pics of the autovilla campout, but here are a few from the weekend.
Image
Image

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
fourier
Oil Pump
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:21 pm
What model do you have?: '59 Ghia, '77 Beetle
Location: Melkbosstrand, Cape Town
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 27 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by fourier » Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:55 am

Nice report Tony.

Impressed by the fuel consumption! I'm sure it will improve further once you get the Innovate wideband on there for some final tweaking.
(o= i =o) (o\ ! /o)

User avatar
Cyndi Kritzinger
Donor
Donor
Posts: 1104
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:49 pm
What model do you have?: '76 BRAZILIA '78 BAY
Facebook: yes
Location: DURBAN
Been thanked: 44 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Cyndi Kritzinger » Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:27 am

NICE STUFF TONY.
AS PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED.......IT DEFINITELY MAKES LIFE A LOT EASIER IF YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TOOLS AND KNOW HOW.
NICE PICS TOO.

User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14085
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 134 times
Been thanked: 363 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:30 am

As some of you know, I was home now for a short 4 week period to spend time with the family over Xmas. As I am away again, I now have a little time to do some small updates.
Not entirely too much happened on the project front, with most work happening to the bus and a little driving of Angrrr.
As this is the bus thread, I'll mention what I did to the bus ;-)

First off was to replace the partquip balljoint which I needed to install a while back. My own stupidity lead to me installing one of my imported balljoints "off center". So yea, I had to cut out the new one and install a partquip cheapy.
Now I imported a few new units again and replaced the cheapy with a proper unit.

I also imported two new tie rods and a new drag link from Brazil via USA. These are all now fitted and the steering is great - not much better than it was, but this goes to show how good the old parts were still.
I then got a free wheel alignment from TSW in Durbanville as I had to teach their training guy (its a new shop and the guys are still in training) how to align a bus's front end. Also, I took all the tools I needed and we needed to use them.

Before wheel alignment, I noticed that the EMPI twin silencer system was falling apart with the one silencer ready to drop off. So I removed it and fitted another EMPI silencer I had lying around.

Also, I decided that its time to to another service. Oil out... adjusted tappets (only 1 or 2 needed adjusting and not by much).
I then took a look at the old warped sump plate and decided to make something new.
I didnt take photos of all the steps, but here are 3
Image

Image

Image

It is a bit thick, so next time it comes off I'll take 1mm off it.

User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14085
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 134 times
Been thanked: 363 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:39 am

And then as a side project, I decided to try something.
Take some aluminium billet
Image

stick it into a lathe
Image

turn it into something nice and mark it out
Image

continue making it into something - note the use of an good quality adjustable reamer for exact sizing
Image
Image

Near final result
Image

Image

final result
Image
Image
Image

And then I took it off and fitted the stock wheel again.
Now I have active working measurements to make up my own adapters for when I get to an upcoming project. ;-)

For now though, the bus is still the same as it was before

User avatar
acpaterson
Carburettor
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:50 pm
What model do you have?: Winston, a 74 Bay
Location: Parklands, Cape Town
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 115 times
Flag: South Africa
Contact:

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by acpaterson » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:59 am

Very cool Tony. nice machines and skills.

team biscuit
Drip
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:25 pm
What model do you have?: 1973
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 1 time
Flag: South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by team biscuit » Sun May 07, 2017 7:59 pm

Awesome geniet dit
I couldn't find the sports car of my dreams, so I built it myself.
Ferdinand Porsche

User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14085
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 134 times
Been thanked: 363 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:48 pm

OK, I think its about time I do an update, now that I have something to update.

Not many of you know this, but I have been unemployed now for going on 10 months. Its a bit of an unfortunate situation with new regulations coming into play which have basically made me unqualified for the position I held for the last 8 years. So I have been in and out of the UK doing conversion courses and exams. Hopefully this is coming to an end now after my next trip to UK. All going well, I'll be able to look for work again soon.

How does this relate to the bus??? Well, since money doesnt last forever, I decided that its time to sell the 1700 engine and put together another one that I have been planning for a while now. OK, the spec wasnt 100% what I originally planned, but as funds are tight, I kept things cheap and used what I had already.

So yea, 1700 engine out and sold. I will really miss this engine, this was/is a true gem of an engine. And awesome replacement for the 1600 bus engine with a bit of extra power and eager to run.

Once again, I have decided to go against the grain with the new engine build. All the guys who I spoke to said I was wasting my time and the engine wouldnt work as a combo. Blah blah blah, those same guys told me the same things about the 1700 engine...
So the specs for the new engine?
2110 cc
82mm stroker crank
90.5mm stroker pistons
Scat H-beam con rods 5.325" (Short rods)
Engle 110 cam and lifters
single HD valve springs
New 1600 heads with stock valve sizes
Weber 36IDF carbs

The build...
I'll do the build in another post as/when time allows

User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14085
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 134 times
Been thanked: 363 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:51 pm

The build begins with some work to open the case and heads up for the larger 90.5mm piston kit


Take case and give it a preliminary wash
Image

strip case so it fits on the mill
Image

put case on mill
Image

clock up and cut case
Image

put heads on mill and clock up
Image

cut heads for 90.5mm cylinders
Image
[/quote]


then when doing a few smaller touches I noticed that the thrust face looks a bit more worn than I first thought...
Image

turns out it is already past its minimum size of 20mm. It measures 19.8mm already.
After re-cutting the thrust face, I went to a local spares shop and bought a set of oversized 1100 golf rings (20 thou over I think it was). This worked out as a brilliant spacer.
Install it with the gap vertically up

User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14085
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 134 times
Been thanked: 363 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:57 pm

Put all the case bolts back in excluding the head studs.
Then bolted the case together and torqued it down.

Out with my line bore tools
Image

The case is cut for standard mains, but I can see the #1 (thrust) bearing will need more than a 0,5mm cut.
But instead of moving straight to a 1mm cut, I went for the 0.5mm cut first so that I have a good seating point to cut the thrust face.
I am not fond of the way the thrust cutter marks the journal, so it should to be done before the line bore. Anyway, my logic was to give it a bigger, rounder seating area by boring to 0.5mm then doing the thrust cut and then reboring to 1mm which should be final size.

0.5mm line bore
Image
Image

Thrust block inserted and cutting of the thrust face
Image
Image
You might notice that the thrust face isnt 100% cleaned up. That is due to the amount of wear of the face. I cant cut it further as I have no secure way of locating the thrust cutter and keeping it level if it doesnt rest against the case from the inside. But it does cut a larger diameter than the previous cut, so it is still nicely cleaned up enough to support the bearing.

1mm cut - unfortunately, this still didnt clean up the bearing journal
Image

So, on to a 1.5mm cut. This cleaned it up nicely.
Image

Here is a picture of the thrust bearing spacer (piston ring) which I used
Image

Thanks to the local spares shops not having the bearing size that I needed, I had to order a set of bearings from USA. Taking Murpheys law into account, I ordered two sets.
When they finally arrived, I cut the first one to fit the thrust bearing and spacer. I wasnt happy with this job as I cut it 0.02mm too wide and this would allow the spacer to turn slightly once the engine was bolted together. So I cut the second thrust bearing a tiny bit less and this one fits properly.

User avatar
retrovan
Donor
Donor
Posts: 6944
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:51 pm
What model do you have?: 52T1,68FB,72Bay,75FL
Location: Eich! no, in Jefferys Bay
Has thanked: 106 times
Been thanked: 334 times
Flag: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by retrovan » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:00 pm

Looking forward to this engine build, as you are like me, if told it can not be done, i will do it, If told not to attempt it, I will drop all and do nothing else than that.

So with the parts list laid down, and a lot of final changes as we go along, that will be One mighty fine motor, just hope you will be able to get it into the bus before the need to sell it.

Good luck with all.

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc twin 34ICT's (Azure Blue)
1968 Fastback (2Lt.type4)twin 34ICT's( Red)
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van (2Lt type 4)twin 34ICT's(White)
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc twin 34ICT's(Aqua Blue/White)

User avatar
freddiebooysen
Clutch
Posts: 633
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:56 am
What model do you have?: 1972
Location: Pretoria
Been thanked: 37 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by freddiebooysen » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:25 pm

Tony well done!


72 - Freddie Booysen
72 Bay - unnamed WIP
72 D/C - Blue abomination!
74 Beetle - BEE

User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14085
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 134 times
Been thanked: 363 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z » Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:08 pm

In case you guys havent noticed, I am poaching a few pics and some writing from another thread I started a while back. That thread covers a fair bit of the build which I dont have to rewrite. I'll add a few things extra at a later stage.

For now, we are onto 8-doweling of the flywheel

Take a normal flywheel in good condition
Image

Put it in the milling machine, clamp it down and drill it out for another 4 dowel pins. This helps in keeping it in place when the engine is capable of producing a bit more hp.
Final result
Image

As the new holes are made to an exact size, it is best to do a pilot hole and then ream the hole to the correct size needed.
And to ensure that the drill and reamer run properly true, dont even consider using a drill chuck. This is where you pull out the collet set to ensure that it all runs properly true.
Image
Image

Being that it is going into a bus, the flywheel wasnt lightened. If this engine was headed into a beetle, I definitely would have taken some weight off the flywheel...

User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14085
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 134 times
Been thanked: 363 times
Flag: South Africa

Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z » Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:23 pm

My original plan with the heads was to mimic to 80's ralley cars with 38mm inlet valves and 32mm exhaust valves. I took the heads to Andreno to have my 38mm seats installed and he pointed out that there isnt enough meat between the spark plug hole and the seat to do this safely. So to do this correctly, the heads need to be welded and the spark plug hole recut, and then all the seats need to be installed again. Once again, I was told that I am wrong with my valve sizes and that this engine nees 42mm inlet and 38mm exhaust valves. His price to do my heads as I wanted them was R4000. So I declined. I just cant spend that kind of money at the moment, especially not for a tiny increase in valve size.

My reason for keeping the valve sizes small is once again because this is going into a bus. If it were for a beetle, then I'd aim for more power and the bigger valves will help achieve this. But since this engine is for a bus, my intention was to keep the intake air flow speed high, which increases drivability and power delivery. OK, it does limit ultimate power, but up to the point where the ports and vlaves become the limit, there is more torque produced and it is easier to drive.
So my aim is big engine with small, high speed ports. All with the aim of making it easier to drive.

I am using stock valves with a bit of porting. I didnt spend too much time on the ports, but I did spend a lot of time on the seats and chambers.
I also cut in a set of Singh grooves. Different layout to what I did for Wentzel, but I think this will work fine for me.

Chambers
Image

Springs, retainers and collets
Image

Valve shims
Image

I set the valves up so that they have 3mm more compression available before they coil bind.


Now a rant.
Back in about 2002 I bought a set of new Autolinea G01 heads. These heads were fantastic.
So, last year I bought another set. Be warned, the new G01 castings are truely crap.

All 4 combustion chambers are different out of the box, with a 4cc difference from largest to smallest.
The seats are all installed at different heights, even on the same head. And its not like intakes are at 1 height and exhausts at a different - they are all different.
Its just piss poor quality.
Maybe next time I should try a set of Chinese heads - they cant be much worse than these.


The seats were treated to a good 3 angle grind and the valves were all backcut to improve air flow.
I also shortened the guides by about 15mm each. This time with the aim of getting more air through the ports to increase power.
Cutting the guides back a little can increase the valve temperature as a fair amount of the heat in the valve is absorbed by the guide. But.... I had my valves all ceramic coated, so there is a fair bit less heat going into the valves anyway.

Using the Engle 110 cam, the recommended compression ratio is between 8:1 and 8.5:1.
Small ports, limited total power and smallish carbs - so I decided on 9:1 compression. Time will tell if this was a good call or not

Post Reply