Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

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acpaterson
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Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by acpaterson » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:43 pm

Go for it.. Peace of mind in the long run buddy..



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Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by jolas » Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:33 pm

Is that foam not possible remnants of the previous engine seal ?

Nice to see you working on the bus Tony, I must pop around, how long before you go back ?
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Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z » Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:26 pm

I head back +/- 14 Feb. Kettle is ready for you Paul

The foam might be an old seal, but I have no idea what the old seal is supposed to be made from.
Anyway, heads are off now, pistons out and clutch off.

Heads were horribly overtightened with one mount cracked
Sleeves are worn but not in too bad condition. I have not checked ring gaps yet.

One good thing is that the clutch and pressure plate are brand spanking new. How new? Well, not even fully seated in yet, maybe 100km old.

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Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Dawie » Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:54 am

The original foam seals lasted better than later replacements. Some replacements have a lower fire-resistance compared to the original. One could coat the replacement seal with silicon. That should make it more resistant to oil and heat. Hang the seal from a high attachment, and use a weight at the bottom. Then use a big tube of silicon. You could use gloves to smear the silicon.
Between the two grooves of the "H" shape, we have to be careful. Pieces of wax-coated cardboard could be stuck in there to keep the grooves open/ preventing them from sticking together.

In a type 4 application, these seals are very easy and quick to fit with engine in place. Although, from 73 onwards, the type 4 engined kombis had a lid on top of the engine compartment which improved access.
Image
(On the above picture the grooves looks much wider than the original seals used to be).

By the way, the 411/412 cars have the fan intake and air cleaner ducted directly to the body's intakes. The seal was still used to keep the engine compartment clean.

In a different application, i made a similar seal from closed cell neoprene rubber. But that was a bit harder than the foam seal.
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
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Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:55 pm

OK, so this morning resulted in a little more stripping of the engine...
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It turns out the case was linebored to 1mm oversize but but #1 bearing (closest to the flywheel) had been cut to 2mm oversize.
So to make the #1 bearing (1mm oversize) fit, adaptors had been fitted to the bearings.
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So, now I have a case that is linebored to its maximum size (2mm). What to do now?
What the heck, lets check out the cam bearing saddles........
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Is that a crack???

Lets follow the crack a little...
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cracked right through to the mains...
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and right through the mains, cam follower and cam journal
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Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Dawie » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:01 pm

Wonder what caused the crack?
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
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Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Retrobug » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:04 pm

Eish :shock:
So much for going for a drive, lucky you decided to take a look! :roll:
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Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Dawie » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:20 pm

Wonder if maybe the rebuilder who previously assembled the engine had a dowel pin/bearing in wrong position, and then torqued the case using brute force. Then found crank could not turn, and opened case to fix.
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
"Things should be as simple as possible, BUT NO SIMPLER THAN THAT."
"If something can go wrong, it will go wrong" (Murphy's law).

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Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Dawie » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:30 pm

You could maybe stick one of your new type 4 engines in there.
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
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"If something can go wrong, it will go wrong" (Murphy's law).

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Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:04 pm

While pulling it apart I did notice that the two center case bolts (same as Sean's post recently) were loose. They were not even hand tight, they had literally both unwound themselves off the case. So either they rattled loose or possibly were not tightened or not torqued down properly, thus coming loose. Either way, I think driving with the case loose like that is what lead to the case destroying itself.
The center main bearing is known for being unbalanced... so without the correct support, it probably knocked the bearing carrier to death.

I have a spare case and have sourced a conversion plate to allow the beetle case to accept the rear engine hanger. I'll pick up the adapter tomorrow - hopefully it is all there and it is strong enough. It mounts onto the oil pump cover.

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Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Muderick » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:27 pm

Hi Tony.... i just received my 36pc bay bus seal kit from Custom and Commercial in the UK.

If you are home this weekend, I can pop round ( with Jolas?) and show you what the genuine / OEM item looks like. Like Dawie says the OEM quaility ones have a longer fire proof time than normal foam ones. You can maybe look at the quality of their kit as well if you ever intend to replace anything rubber/seals on your bus with the best quality kit around.

Heres their link: http://www.customandcommercial.com/vw-b ... seal_kits/

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Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by IMPI » Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:29 pm

Hi those engines were built by one of the major rebuilders back in the day If my info is correct "Superwagen" but I have also found different sized mains in OEM VW rebuilt engines as well as the spacers. the crack as you show is not entirely uncommon but I have yet to see a completely cracked engine casing that the part is actually loose. I would also go for one of those 1800s you so carefully squirreled away I can probably scrounge all the tin and crossmember for you. nice part of those is the 200mm flywheel
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Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Tony Z » Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:07 pm

Muderick wrote:Hi Tony.... i just received my 36pc bay bus seal kit from Custom and Commercial in the UK.

If you are home this weekend, I can pop round ( with Jolas?) and show you what the genuine / OEM item looks like. Like Dawie says the OEM quaility ones have a longer fire proof time than normal foam ones. You can maybe look at the quality of their kit as well if you ever intend to replace anything rubber/seals on your bus with the best quality kit around.

Heres their link: http://www.customandcommercial.com/vw-b ... seal_kits/

Muds
Thanks Muds
You are welcome to visit Saturday morning up to 1200 if you are not busy. Unfortunately, the rest of the weekend is fully booked with Birthdays. Paul, you are welcome too if you can make it. Anyone else?
IMPI wrote:Hi those engines were built by one of the major rebuilders back in the day If my info is correct "Superwagen" but I have also found different sized mains in OEM VW rebuilt engines as well as the spacers. the crack as you show is not entirely uncommon but I have yet to see a completely cracked engine casing that the part is actually loose. I would also go for one of those 1800s you so carefully squirreled away I can probably scrounge all the tin and crossmember for you. nice part of those is the 200mm flywheel
Armand
Thanks for the info Armand. I wonder why VW would use such an item instead of condemning the case. It is obviously pounded well past its service life if you need spacers to correct the amount of linebore needed. Then you are just adding another item which can move around and cause problems.

I know you guys think I am mad for not using one of the T4's, but I have my reasons. Unfortunately the flywheels on them are not fit for use in an automotive application. The starter teeth are on the side of the flywheel, not on the OD, so the starter needs to be mounted 90deg to the crank centerline.

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Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by IMPI » Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:22 pm

Hi Tony should have clarified those flywheels have a removable ring gear and it is a fairly simple matter to replace
But I can relate to keeping it type one as well
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Re: Tony Z has a Baywindow Panel Van

Post by Dawie » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:19 pm

Those industrial flywheels made for side-mounted starter application are highly sought after for aviation applications. You should be able to sell them for good money.
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
"Things should be as simple as possible, BUT NO SIMPLER THAN THAT."
"If something can go wrong, it will go wrong" (Murphy's law).

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