SFAS - Beetle cross shaft parts for late box

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sean
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Re: Inner spacer and bearing gap question on axle

Post by sean »

Donovan D wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:00 am
Phoned three brake and clutch shops yesterday, all three said their machine is broken and will only be running from 8 Jan 2018. Seems like everyone is in holiday mode.


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Phone some more, you will find a place that does operate when there is actually a demand for business. That is the place to keep supporting when you find it, not these lazy bastards that shut their doors to go on holiday and not do business.


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Re: Inner spacer and bearing gap question on axle

Post by Dawie »

In case this got lost on the previous page- did you confirm if left adjuster is seated the right way around where it touches brake shoe?
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Staying Aircooled is so much nicer.
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Re: Inner spacer and bearing gap question on axle

Post by Terry Phillips »

Well spotted Dawie as Herman said now the drum should fit.
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Donovan D
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Re: Inner spacer and bearing gap question on axle

Post by Donovan D »

:hangloose: :hangloose: 10 out of 10 for Dawie :hangloose: :hangloose:

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Well spotted Dawie. I will get everything tightened up over the weekend. The pic was just a loose fit, I did however see that there is not much thread left for the castle nut once the drum is on. Will have to look at it again once everything is bolted down.
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Re: Inner spacer and bearing gap question on axle

Post by Donovan D »

Anyone want a gearbox, and fuch replica wheels :evil:

So I got the inner spacer, axle shaft, bearing the lot in. New problem, Im thinking these earlier backing plate and bearing cover bits are not working on these shafts. The backing plate sits flush with the axle tube, but now the bearing cover plate has a lip of about 1mm. So if I bolt this down its not flush with the backing plate and Im sure thats not right.

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There is also not enough thread to take the castle wheel nut, and also no room for the centre cap to o on the wheel.

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Re: Inner spacer and bearing gap question on axle

Post by Tony Z »

Are you sure that the lip isnt supposed to be there as a form of locating the cover plate?
If it can be held down properly, we could skim it off on my mill.

As for the drum, I can cut that hub shorter in the lathe to allow the castle nut to fit - provided there is still enough support on the hub to handle the force of the nut.

?????????????
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Re: Inner spacer and bearing gap question on axle

Post by fourier »

The short axle also has short splines, as opposed to later long axles having long splines. It appears that you are installing long splined (late model) drums on the short axles, which does not leave enough thread to tighten the axle nut properly. Also make sure that the axle is drawn all the way through the bearing, and the bearing seated on the inner spacer.

Tony's suggestion to cut the nose off the drum, is your only option if you want to run late drums on short axles.

As for the bearing cover not fitting... be sure that the covers are correctly matched to the short axles. There are specific covers for short axles, with different dimensions to the late model covers. The part number cast into the covers should be 311 501 311. That is the correct cover for a short axle. Late covers part numbers are 311 501 311A, and will not work with short axles.
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Re: Inner spacer and bearing gap question on axle

Post by Donovan D »

Thanks thanks, the oval bearing covers are indeed not correct for the short axles. I managed to get the right covers - 311 501 311. Im still going to be using the oval backing plates and braking bits. Hopefully this is the last time Im getting the axles on the box.

Now Im stuck with this o-ring. Where does it go ? I cant get it to stay on the axle tube retainer lip. The pics im getting on the net also shows a different axle retainer with a little lip for the o-ring to sit in.
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Or does it go here ?
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@Tony, once the backing plate and correct bearing cover is on I will be able to see where I am with regards to the hub and nut. I also used the 4.5j wheel and not the 5.5j wheel on the photos above, but I doubt there is any difference in the actual mounting surface of the wheels.
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Re: Inner spacer and bearing gap question on axle

Post by fourier »

There are no o-rings on the early short axle tube flanges, only on the later long axle tubes, so your o-rings don't go in either location.

The o-rings in your gasket kit actually goes into a groove on the diff side cover, to stop oil leaks between the gearbox case and the diff side cover.

When you install the axle tube, make sure you have the correct number of packing gaskets between the axle tube flange and the gearbox. This takes a bit of trial and error, with removing and replacing gaskets, torquing the flange nuts to 19Nm, and checking the free play between the axle tube and gearbox. You don't want the axle to bind against the gearbox once torqued. It must just have enough free play to drop under its own weight. You don't want too much play either. There are some YouTube videos on the setup procedures.

OE packing/gaskets were more of a plastic shim (various thicknesses were available), than the paper gaskets that come in the modern gasket kits. I always try to salvage the original plastic shims, and set the axle play using those. Paper gaskets do not maintain the torque, and start leaking over time.

Early tubes don't have o-rings on the flange like later ones, that is why you should ensure that the axle tube flanges are not/were not over tightened, as the flange will permanently deform (dimple) in the area under the nuts and cause oil leaks. Make sure the flanges are perfectly flat before assembly. Check with a straight edge for any distortion, and correct it, to avoid oil leaks. Torque the nuts to 19Nm only, to avoid oil leaks from distortion.
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Re: Inner spacer and bearing gap question on axle

Post by fourier »

I recently converted my Karmann Ghia gearbox back to short axles, and replaced all seals and gaskets.

As additional insurance against oil leaks, I added longer flange studs, and 8mm steel flanges. This allows me to increase the torque on the nuts, without distorting the axle tube flanges.

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Re: Inner spacer and bearing gap question on axle

Post by Donovan D »

Managed to get everything back on again. Thanks for clearing up the o-ring as I was a bit lost as to where it should go.

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Because the bearing cover is taller than the oval ones, the drum sits higher now. It appears that the brake shoes does not make full contact with the drum as its too high.

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The brake shoe are about 7mm from the backing plate.
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How many mm give or take will the drum go in once the castle nut is torqued down ?
On the plus side, the 5.5j wheels are actually different and the drum does not poke out the top of the rim anymore.

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Re: Inner spacer and bearing gap question on axle

Post by fourier »

Puzzling, something seems wrong...

The bearing cover does not affect where the shoes sit in relation to the backing plate. The offset of the slave cylinder and adjusters determine that, and that has not changed. Are you sure that has changed since the bearing cover swop?

The drum also does not touch the bearing cover, so the cover should not affect where the drum sits. The only difference should be that the new bearing cover has an oil slinger (+/- 0.3mm thick), which sits between the drum and the outer bearing spacer. The drum will therefore sit 0.3mm further away from the backing plate, than before.

Did you tighten the bearing cover bolts to 58Nm, and are there any gaps between the bearing cover/backing plate/axle tube?

I am concerned that one of the fulcrum plates may have dropped out of place, and to the bottom of the side gear. Believe me, this happens very quickly (personal school fees)! The axle will then stick further out of the gearbox, and you could break things if you try to tighten the bearing cover.

I normally install the axle and fulcrum plates into the side gear, with the axle standing in the vertical position (on an engine stand). Then install side gear spacer and circlip. Then install the gaskets/shims, tube, and bearing. Before you fit the bearing cover, use the drum and axle nut, to draw the bearing onto the inner bearing spacer. Carefully remove the drum, but whatever you do, NEVER lift the axle until the bearing cover is tightened. This is done to avoid the fulcrum plate dropping out of place. You are vulnerable to fulcrum plates dropping out of place, until the bearing cover is tightened.

Good luck!
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Re: Inner spacer and bearing gap question on axle

Post by Donovan D »

Just for those following this thread.
After a few pics were sent back and forth between myself and fourier we managed to figure out the problem.

The axle setup seems to be correct, the problem is with the drum. The drum was pressing against the wheel bearing housing itself and not the oil deflector. The lip on the inside needs to be taken down a bit more. Got the other drum out and it seems to be correct.

This is the drum that pushes against the bearing housing cover.
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This one seems to be correct but I will need to measure an original drum to confirm the correct length.
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Thanks for the help @fourier :drunks:
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Re: Inner spacer and bearing gap question on axle

Post by Tony Z »

glad you found it without needing to break anything
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Re: Inner spacer and bearing gap question on axle

Post by fourier »

Just glad your project is one step closer to being back on the road!
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