Hello,
I have come into two 1800 heads and am thinking of putting them into my type 4 2 litre CU engine. I have read this is a straight swap however, have learned that there is never any such thing.
1) is this a good idea?
2) Is it a simple swap of the heads to put them in? (The first issue I know is that the exhaust ports are different but I need a new exhaust manifold / heat exchange in any case. My square port heat exchanges are paper thin. )
3) if it is, what needs to be done from jets in the carbs to timing etc etc
Long story short, I had the air mixture screw from the little third idle carb rattle out when driving home from the Kruger. The engine then obviously had lots and lots or air coming in from this carb. It ran extremely lean for about 500Kms at 4000 RPM (the high revs meant it was not noticed until it was too late).
I have blown the seats on the current 3/4 head so I need to either fix the head (welding) or replace both with new. A set of 1800 heads fell into my lap hence the question.
Marc
1800 heads on a type 4 2 litre motor
- marcw
- Oil Pump
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:27 pm
- What model do you have?: 76 T2 Kombi
- Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/marc.wetselaar
- Location: Buccleuch Johannesburg
- Has thanked: 12 times
- Been thanked: 6 times
- Contact:
- Tony Z
- Donor
- Posts: 14994
- Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
- What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
- Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
- Has thanked: 191 times
- Been thanked: 487 times
Re: 1800 heads on a type 4 2 litre motor
the 1800 heads are supposed to be the best of all the T4 heads.
ANGRRR
http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopi ... 23&t=14775
1302S
http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopi ... 23&t=33521
Panel Van
http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopic.php?p=288723
http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopi ... 23&t=14775
1302S
http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopi ... 23&t=33521
Panel Van
http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopic.php?p=288723
vader wrote: The Force is strong with you young Sith Lord Z!
- marcw
- Oil Pump
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:27 pm
- What model do you have?: 76 T2 Kombi
- Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/marc.wetselaar
- Location: Buccleuch Johannesburg
- Has thanked: 12 times
- Been thanked: 6 times
- Contact:
Re: 1800 heads on a type 4 2 litre motor
Okydoky - I will attempt to put them in - thanks Tony
Will keep the pictures etc etc on this post as I progress
Will keep the pictures etc etc on this post as I progress
- fig
- Bus Driver
- Posts: 12214
- Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:08 pm
- What model do you have?: Type 2
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/258896479219/
- Location: Where life is cheap and death is free
- Has thanked: 287 times
- Been thanked: 321 times
- Contact:
Re: 1800 heads on a type 4 2 litre motor
I don't know if they're a staright fit without modifications, but 1800 can definitely be used on a 2.0l engine. 1800 heads are popular because they had the biggest stock valves on a type4 engine. 2.0l engines had smaller valves.
fig
Kaapse Kombi Kult
"Whether you think you can or whether you think you can't, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Kaapse Kombi Kult
"Whether you think you can or whether you think you can't, you're right." -- Henry Ford
- sean
- Transmission
- Posts: 2400
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:51 pm
- What model do you have?: Bays & Splits
- Location: Somerset West
- Has thanked: 63 times
- Been thanked: 227 times
Re: 1800 heads on a type 4 2 litre motor
Hi Mark. Please post pics of these 1800 heads.
They will fit straight on to the 2.0 motor, but I feel it’s not correct to make a bastard motor with mixed parts. If it is a CU casing, it should have CU heads and exhaust.
Also remember it is quite easy to fit the bigger valves into the 2.0L heads. When replacing the seats, just simply fit the bigger 1800 ones. I have done this, but quite honestly it did buggerall to the way it drives. The 1800 type 4 motor is the nicer motor of the batch, but it works in harmony in conjunction with the stroke, piston head design, cylinder head design and cam that all differ from a 2.0L.
Your story regarding the running lean causing a valve seat to come out is rather strange. I don’t think that could have caused that. Possibly poor fitment thereof when your heads were reconditioned.
They will fit straight on to the 2.0 motor, but I feel it’s not correct to make a bastard motor with mixed parts. If it is a CU casing, it should have CU heads and exhaust.
Also remember it is quite easy to fit the bigger valves into the 2.0L heads. When replacing the seats, just simply fit the bigger 1800 ones. I have done this, but quite honestly it did buggerall to the way it drives. The 1800 type 4 motor is the nicer motor of the batch, but it works in harmony in conjunction with the stroke, piston head design, cylinder head design and cam that all differ from a 2.0L.
Your story regarding the running lean causing a valve seat to come out is rather strange. I don’t think that could have caused that. Possibly poor fitment thereof when your heads were reconditioned.
- marcw
- Oil Pump
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:27 pm
- What model do you have?: 76 T2 Kombi
- Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/marc.wetselaar
- Location: Buccleuch Johannesburg
- Has thanked: 12 times
- Been thanked: 6 times
- Contact:
Re: 1800 heads on a type 4 2 litre motor
Hi Sean - thanks for that, I would think the Germans knew what they were doing when they designed the engine although I do often wonder where all the petrol goes in my old buss.
The engine did run lean for 7 hours under heavy load and 38 degrees temperatures and my thinking was that it got really hot because of this. I may be wrong.
The possibility of poor fitment is exactly why I am a little loath to put new seats in the old heads. I have now had three sets of heads in 10 years fail on me (she is an every day runner). The experts keep telling me that the heads are fixed. New valves, new valve stems, new seats all done in the current heads 25Kms ago. This is too soon for failure in my book. Heads should last hundreds of thousand kilometers not 25K.
The 1800 heads have never been welded which is a first for me and I am hoping that they will therefore be a little stronger.
But once my old heads are off I will know more. I am tired of replacing heads on this type 4 engine of mine. This time I have already purchased a temperature gauge.
The engine did run lean for 7 hours under heavy load and 38 degrees temperatures and my thinking was that it got really hot because of this. I may be wrong.
The possibility of poor fitment is exactly why I am a little loath to put new seats in the old heads. I have now had three sets of heads in 10 years fail on me (she is an every day runner). The experts keep telling me that the heads are fixed. New valves, new valve stems, new seats all done in the current heads 25Kms ago. This is too soon for failure in my book. Heads should last hundreds of thousand kilometers not 25K.
The 1800 heads have never been welded which is a first for me and I am hoping that they will therefore be a little stronger.
But once my old heads are off I will know more. I am tired of replacing heads on this type 4 engine of mine. This time I have already purchased a temperature gauge.
- Tony Z
- Donor
- Posts: 14994
- Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
- What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
- Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
- Has thanked: 191 times
- Been thanked: 487 times
Re: 1800 heads on a type 4 2 litre motor
VW's original heads when new were only rated for 80 000km, after that, it was a replaceable part. You are using old cores with soft aluminium... I dont think 25000km is too unreasonable when you take this into account
ANGRRR
http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopi ... 23&t=14775
1302S
http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopi ... 23&t=33521
Panel Van
http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopic.php?p=288723
http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopi ... 23&t=14775
1302S
http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopi ... 23&t=33521
Panel Van
http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopic.php?p=288723
vader wrote: The Force is strong with you young Sith Lord Z!
- marcw
- Oil Pump
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:27 pm
- What model do you have?: 76 T2 Kombi
- Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/marc.wetselaar
- Location: Buccleuch Johannesburg
- Has thanked: 12 times
- Been thanked: 6 times
- Contact:
Re: 1800 heads on a type 4 2 litre motor
WoW Tony that is so sad if true. I will need to purchase an hydraulic lift soon so that it is simpler to change the heads once a year.
- marcw
- Oil Pump
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:27 pm
- What model do you have?: 76 T2 Kombi
- Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/marc.wetselaar
- Location: Buccleuch Johannesburg
- Has thanked: 12 times
- Been thanked: 6 times
- Contact:
Re: 1800 heads on a type 4 2 litre motor
I think I should also then have all 6 of my heads rebuilt by McDonalds so that I have spares for the next 6 years.
- retrovan
- Donor
- Posts: 8709
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:51 pm
- What model do you have?: 52T1,68FB,72Bay,75FL
- Location: Eich! no, in Jefferys Bay
- Has thanked: 421 times
- Been thanked: 539 times
- Contact:
Re: 1800 heads on a type 4 2 litre motor
A correctly reworked head should be better then the 2nd hand head as they have not been exposed to overheating and loosened up already.
When you now have the heads fitted, get the carb on the 3-4 pistons set slightly rich to help cool the number 3 as this is always the one that overheats 1st
The guys do not heat the heads high enough and freeze the seats enough to give a over spec interference fit.
The normal engineering spec is far too low for the type 4 head and should be nearer double standard fit.
ie, even at these temperatures , the seats must not fall in place but would still need pressing.
Also If I remember right they had a slight angle to them, so they cannot come out when loose.
Good luck with your heads, the type 4 motor is worth it.
Herman
When you now have the heads fitted, get the carb on the 3-4 pistons set slightly rich to help cool the number 3 as this is always the one that overheats 1st
The guys do not heat the heads high enough and freeze the seats enough to give a over spec interference fit.
The normal engineering spec is far too low for the type 4 head and should be nearer double standard fit.
ie, even at these temperatures , the seats must not fall in place but would still need pressing.
Also If I remember right they had a slight angle to them, so they cannot come out when loose.
Good luck with your heads, the type 4 motor is worth it.
Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
- sean
- Transmission
- Posts: 2400
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:51 pm
- What model do you have?: Bays & Splits
- Location: Somerset West
- Has thanked: 63 times
- Been thanked: 227 times
Re: 1800 heads on a type 4 2 litre motor
Oh no, 25 000km is way to low. For sure any VW part is not going to last hundreds of thousand of km like a Mercedes, but you should at least get 100 000km out of the heads. I have had 2 type 4 motors that I myself did more than 100 000km without having to remove the heads.
Both motors I could have classified as tired when they past the 100 000km range though. It was certainly more than just the valves, cams and cylinder wear were also quite noticeable.
Both motors I could have classified as tired when they past the 100 000km range though. It was certainly more than just the valves, cams and cylinder wear were also quite noticeable.