camber compensator straps?

Ask and give advice here
Post Reply
User avatar
John Alves
Crankshaft
Posts: 791
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:06 pm
What model do you have?: 58Ghia 68bug68buggy
Location: Cape Town
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 48 times
South Africa

camber compensator straps?

Post by John Alves »

I found this pic on the net and wondered if that strap on the shock mountings is a camber compensator system.
Do they work and has anyone had any experience with these?
Seems too simple to be true.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


No sense being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway.

1958 1600 TP Karmann Ghia
1968 1600 TP Beamish buggy
1968 1500 SP Beetle
User avatar
Merlin
ACVWSA Junkie
Posts: 6115
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:46 pm
What model do you have?:  Various
Location: Cape Town, ZA
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 39 times
Contact:

Re: camber compensator straps?

Post by Merlin »

Hi John,



They are limit straps. They will stop a tuck-under situation occurring, similar to a camber compensator.

'Camber compensators' are not anti-roll bars, or Z-bars, and will not aid in improving handling. They all perform different functions.

The only time you will feel a compensator working is at the limit of suspension travel. Take a bend at speed, with a swing-axle Beetle, unsettle the rear and you will feel it kick in, with an accompanying sense of relief in your gut.
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, and oversteer, the rear.
Hp is how fast you hit the wall, and Torque is how far you take the wall with you."
sled wrote:well obviously the UK is wrong.
User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14992
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 191 times
Been thanked: 487 times
South Africa

Re: camber compensator straps?

Post by Tony Z »

IMO, the Camber compensator is worth its weight in gold and possibly the best upgrade you can do to the swingaxle rear suspension.
They work extremely well and definitely improve handling.
I have mine setup to I have it pre-loaded when installed, pushing the axles up into the arches. I wont ever drive another swing axle without one.

As for the picture above, Merlin is correct, they are limiting straps and stop your axles from moving downwards away from the arches. The problem is they are not progressive and so unsettle the car when they suddenly stop the axles from moving, putting you in a very dangerous situation.
They are usually used for drag racing or offroad cars which get regular air.
User avatar
retrovan
Donor
Donor
Posts: 8709
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:51 pm
What model do you have?: 52T1,68FB,72Bay,75FL
Location: Eich! no, in Jefferys Bay
Has thanked: 421 times
Been thanked: 539 times
Contact:
Netherlands

Re: camber compensator straps?

Post by retrovan »

These were used in Beetle racing and you pre-load the suspension limiting it to a few mm movement.

This was the same as lowering your normal car axles, but also helped the beetle not roll over on a bend.

So now the driver could decelerate in a corner, as without it you can not, you will flip the Beetle.

You fit them to both front and back, and you can corner as fast as any other car.

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
User avatar
John Alves
Crankshaft
Posts: 791
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:06 pm
What model do you have?: 58Ghia 68bug68buggy
Location: Cape Town
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 48 times
South Africa

Re: camber compensator straps?

Post by John Alves »

would adding a strong spring to this strap be the same as a compensator system?
No sense being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway.

1958 1600 TP Karmann Ghia
1968 1600 TP Beamish buggy
1968 1500 SP Beetle
User avatar
retrovan
Donor
Donor
Posts: 8709
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:51 pm
What model do you have?: 52T1,68FB,72Bay,75FL
Location: Eich! no, in Jefferys Bay
Has thanked: 421 times
Been thanked: 539 times
Contact:
Netherlands

Re: camber compensator straps?

Post by retrovan »

John Alves wrote: Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:31 pm would adding a strong spring to this strap be the same as a compensator system?
As you would pull down the torsion spring of the original suspension by more then half, you already have a lot of spring tension on the strap, and an extra spring will only allow the suspension to dead stop, on return after a bump, to make it unpleasant.

If my memory serves me right, they where made of canvas that had a bit of give in it so as not to give a dead stop but a controlled stop of travel.

You would need to fit adjustable shocks so that you can set it to "Hard" for a better ride.

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
Dawie
Fuel Injection
Posts: 2110
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:25 pm
What model do you have?: Aircooled, various
Location: Kaapstadt
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 207 times
South Africa

Re: camber compensator straps?

Post by Dawie »

Limiting straps may be more of a "band aid" during track-racing. They might leave you stuck during severe off-road conditions. In a 2 wheel drive application without difflock or limited slip diff, objective is to have all 4 wheels on the ground. Otherwise, because of diff action, traction will suffer. Like doing a steep muddy hill where the surface is twisted.
Think of a Unimog where the steel chassis was made to be twisty, combined with long-travel suspension. Difflock use obviously messes with the steering, so best to avoid using it where possible.

During car trial competitions in Europe around the 60's, people noticed that pre-58 beetles (which had no front anti-roll bars), would go further under these severe slow-speed conditions. So some drivers of later beetles would then remove their front anti-roll bars before the event and put it back later. Another thing which may hurt under these conditions are aftermarket coilover shocks, if those limit suspension travel on a lightly loaded vehicle.
Staying Aircooled is so much nicer.
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
User avatar
retrovan
Donor
Donor
Posts: 8709
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:51 pm
What model do you have?: 52T1,68FB,72Bay,75FL
Location: Eich! no, in Jefferys Bay
Has thanked: 421 times
Been thanked: 539 times
Contact:
Netherlands

Re: camber compensator straps?

Post by retrovan »

Sorry did not make my self clear.

As Dawie said, this is not for off-road racing, these straps where only used on track racing, and sometimes on drag racing.

Do not use them on off-road, as you will be off on the 1st corner.

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
Post Reply