Pan Bent?

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Pan Bent?

Post by keithm18@gmail.com »

Hi All.

In the process of swapping the front axle, gearbox and drive shafts from our old broken pan to the new one.

Now that we have the axle, gear box and front axle moved across to the new pan we are finding that the edges of the front and rear of the pan are lower on the right than the left by quite a large margin. Around 30 mm...

We are measuring from the ground up to the chassis and while the axle seems to be level the frame definitely seems to be "leaning" to the right.

We also noticed in the process of this that the left rear shock tower appears to be lower than the right one....

All measurements are being done on the garage floor which is level.

Is it a common thing to see that the rear axle tube is "twisted" as appears to be a part of the problem?

At this point we are thinking of pulling off what we have put on and then putting it all back on the floor to try and see what's causing the problem...


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Re: Pan Bent?

Post by retrovan »

Do you know if your pan is in fact flat, it may be that the pan is twisted, then you will have to 1st pull it right

Have done it on my 1952 pan that had a lot of welding done to it to repair rust.

Here is the post.

viewtopic.php?p=299549#p299549

viewtopic.php?p=299565#p299565

Hope this helps

Herman
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Re: Pan Bent?

Post by keithm18@gmail.com »

Hi All.

Ok so I have a few more details. I have removed the front beam and the gearbox and drive shafts. Even took off the rear pieces that go onto the torsion bars.

The pan is level and straight. if I put it onto trestles on the front (one on each side of the frame head) and one on each side of the torsion tube at the back. However the problem I have is that the right shock tower is significantly higher than the left. around 40 mm. There is no obvious twisting or signs of damage to either side.

It's so high that the shock on that side is at maximum height when we had it in and the left one is not. When we had it all together it seems to make the whole buggy stand a bit lopsided....

Today I flipped the frame upside down and with trestles under the torsion tube confirmed that is 100% level but the end of the shock support where the bump stop would touch (Now on the left because it's upside down) is lower by that 40 mm I was taking about...

I have measured on the old pan with the broken frame head and best I can see the shock towers are level on that one...

I tried to put rawl bolts into the ground with a chain around the torsion tube and then jack up the shock tower and I thought it was working till it pulled up my garage floor and then when I measured it I could see it did nothing....

I am worried that when we put it together it wont drive right with this problem. Does anyone have any input on this one for me... A few pics to try and explain as well...

You will see that the torsion tube is level, but when I measure on the shock towers the left one is quite a bit lower (With the frame up side down)







Image

Image

Image
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Re: Pan Bent?

Post by retrovan »

Looks like you have a roll-over pan

If you look at the gearbox mount forks, the right hand one has a kink in it just where it widens, and its been bent down.

Not sure if you will pull it straight with my method as this is heavy metal.

I would start by placing the "PAN" in equal stands, Then measure from the floor to the gearbox mount forks, also to the ends, middle and inner height of your beam.

Then your shock towers top and bottom.

Not sure if you will pull it at home, may have to get it to a body shop.

OR

You can cut it and re-weld it into the correct place, but this you will have to do with angle cuts and and maximum surface welds

Maybe cutting out this pan good sections and fitting them into the old pan may be a easy way out.

Good luck

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
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Re: Pan Bent?

Post by keithm18@gmail.com »

Thanks Herman....

So more measurements tell me I have a problem. Having it level (hard to tell where to measure to see it's level) and taking measurements from the ground up on trestles..

Frame forks Left rear 475 mm
Frame forks Right rear 465 mm
Frame forks Left front 425 mm
Frame forks Left front 425 mm
Torsion Tube left 480 mm
Torsion Tube Right 490 mm (You can ever so slightly see it's bent up from the inside to the outside...)
Left shock bump stop 610 mm
Right shock bump stop 640 mm

The things are all over but I am not sure on what the tolerances should be....

Most things are within 10 mm except the Shock "supports" which itself looks bent....

Looks Like I am either off to a body shop or does anyone have a shortened frame for me that's straight at a reasonable price? (300 MM shorter than standard) I just paid to have this over priced frame shortened too....
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Re: Pan Bent?

Post by Tony Z »

If you really want an easy and simple solution, get one slightly longer shock than the other.
Then set the trailing arm heights to make the car level.
Remember, the shock absorber only absorbs shock, it doesnt affect ride height.
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Re: Pan Bent?

Post by keithm18@gmail.com »

Thank you Tony.

I was honestly thinking of doing the same thing.... Was worried about tension in the Torsion springs being different. However I am sure I can sort that with adjustment. This is not going to be a hectic highway road vehicle. But I do need it to be safe.

Will post back to let all know where I land up...

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Re: Pan Bent?

Post by keithm18@gmail.com »

OK. So the frame is at a panel beater.

There is evidence that the frame was rear ended on the right pushing the tower up and twisting the torque tube slightly. His advice is to cut if off the Torsion tube rotate it and weld it back into place at the correct angle...

At this point I am weighing up this option on a frame which I have already shortened or starting with a clean frame that is either shortened or needs to be shortened.

The frame head and tunnel on this frame is 100% so may sell this on for a front end project for someone.

Will keep all updated.

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Re: Pan Bent?

Post by Dawie »

Keep in mind chassis number/ vehicle identity if stamped on a pan. Documentation of ownership/ scrap papers. To prevent a possible nightmare if you plan to register the vehicle some day.
Staying Aircooled is so much nicer.
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
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Re: Pan Bent?

Post by keithm18@gmail.com »

So on a whim I placed a wanted ad on Facebook market place. I am fetching a rolling chassis , which has already been cut and is straight on Saturday morning. It's post 1973 has a gearbox and axles fitted as well as a front axle, wheels and a lot of the stuff I would have to get to on the skew pan I have now.

It's a preferred option over getting a new pan and cutting it again etc etc...

We have also decided to fix the current pan by "rotating" the elevated shock tower by cutting it off the torque tube and re-welding it correctly (We can see someone tried this but got it wrong after removing a bit of paint) and will keep this for a potential second build to come...It's with a body shop at the moment and they are getting to it when they have an opening to keep the costs down.

Either that or we may just sell it out of hand with the extra gearbox, drive shafts, front axle and spare wheels when we are done with the first build.

Will keep you all posted...
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Re: Pan Bent?

Post by Tony Z »

sounds like a good option.
Keep us updated on your build.
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Re: Pan Bent?

Post by keithm18@gmail.com »

Hello Everyone.

So last weekend we picked up a good condition shortened chassis with a 1973 gearbox and drive train in the rear and a good condition front beam.

Today we started the process of cutting the old pans out and next weekend we start the fabrication for the diamond plate pans.

Lots of cutting, welding, grinding and chiseling today....

Also the bent pan is now straight and equal on the suspension at the rear and being finished. I will have it back next weekend

Plan to do a second full rolling chassis as well and then who knows...ImageImageImage

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Re: Pan Bent?

Post by retrovan »

What about not having a father & son Buggy, :shock:

but having a father buggy and a son buggy, :wink:

Life is better in pairs,

Makes me all teary eyed ..... :D

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
keithm18@gmail.com
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Re: Pan Bent?

Post by keithm18@gmail.com »

Don't think that hasn't crossed my mind... And my wife is warm to the idea too...

It all depends in what this first one costs to finish because we want it done right... And that would be an indication of what a second would cost...

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Re: Pan Bent?

Post by Tony Z »

just do them together at the same time, that way you dont have to worry about how much the first one cost ;-)
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