how to id a 1600sp

[beetlepower]

The black SP is hot. First time I have heard about it

[sp1600 uk]

there is now a five speed gearbox conversion available from the states . i will dig out a link for you guys and post it on here as theres a number of cars in the uk running them usualy with stroker motors
kevin

[sp1600 uk]

as promised five speed geabox link

http://www.bearsmotorsport.co.uk/


kevin

[IMPI]

I would really like to see some clear photos of this supposed 5 speed gearbox and the mods required to the chassis. anything is possible but in my 30 odd years of being involved i have not heard of such an animal VW SA was not very involved in racing and in the time period would not even sell assemblies to Puma as they did not considder any performance enhancements. The beetle with the SP engine would not benifit from a 5th gear I believe disc brakes would be the first option were you to tackkle the Sani Pass. I did drive up the sani pass once and the vehicle (a 4x4) never got past third gear. I must say Theo Decker then must have been a brazillian as all the SP parts were pirated from the Brazillian Super Fusca (almost the same concept) and all the parts on the engine are brazillian in origin except the exhaust which were SA produced. The SE beetles website has got this one wrong. 50 cars for a rally where the most any manufacturer in SA would enter one partially sponsored car LOL But then again there are lions in Johannesburg.
Armand

[Pine]

But then again there are lions in Johannesburg.

And Bengal Tigers in Delmas...

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/articl ... ide-Delmas

[karmakoma]

Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes!

[sp1600 uk]

the brakes on mine use type two drums hence larger pad to drum contact , wnen the front whhel bearing went when my father owned the car he had a nightmare finding replacement bearings , no vw part matched fortunatly we have a bearing stockist in london and after taking the old bearing to them they matched it to a mk 1 ford transit . rear bearings are type 2 . i have repatedly offered eben the chance to come and inspect the car at his leisure and as i have now found a source for the parts i need no thanks to the lack of help on here . the sp carb set up info i gave to your site was the tip of the iceberg on the technical spec of my car and due to attitude from i get from the majority . in the UK is where this information will stay.
i frequent many forums across europe and have owned and raced beetles over the last 20 years and yours is one forum i shall no longer comment in

[sp1600 uk]

and as for the 50 cars you will find the blacks will have been the limited run of base spec for the rally cars ( minimum number of cars to be classed as a production car ) to gain entry

[beetlepower]

[fig]

i have repatedly offered eben the chance to come and inspect the car at his leisure and as i have now found a source for the parts i need no thanks to the lack of help on here . the sp carb set up info i gave to your site was the tip of the iceberg on the technical spec of my car and due to attitude from i get from the majority . in the UK is where this information will stay.
i frequent many forums across europe and have owned and raced beetles over the last 20 years and yours is one forum i shall no longer comment in

I don't think people on here are being unhelpful. It's just that no one here has ever heard of the legendary 50 5-speed rally SPs. Only one surviving black SP is known, and I don't think it's a 5-speed. The only known reference to the 5-speed is the Swedish site you linked to, which refers to a race that never existed. The closest thing in reality was the Roof of Africa Rally and I never heard of VW entering a factory team.

No one is saying it didn't exist, but no one who says it did exist has produced any real evidence that it did. Where are the photographs of your 5-speed SP? If IMPI has never seen one and no one else here has ever heard of it then why should anyone believe this exists?

So keep your info to yourself if you must; it's not as though you've given us any real evidence yet.

[Pine]

The FIG has spoken! .

[VW1600S]

Ja it's a perana, if these aren't available new, aren't there any other available new?

Wow the 5spd gearbox has sparked off a real typing frenzy. I only asked about it as I had never heard or seen one! First time I heard of it was in the SEBeetles. Just wanted to know if anyone had one or knew anything about it. NO need for such a reply Fig!

[IMPI]

I am not saying this car does not exist
this topic has been ongoing for a long time and except for a photo of a 5 speed gearknob there is no real other info on this 5 speed.
now he uses bus drums and what do off road users do when racing a bug? they put bigger wheels on! The factory already had acces to disc brakes and supplied them in SA in 1967 so why use drums? hewland gearboxes used IRS and was essentially a beetle box with new internals but the nose casting was much larger and wont fit a beetle easily.
Some Hewland History:
Mike Hewland was in a most advantageous position because the inverted VW gearbox had the output shafts above the input shaft from the clutch thus already providing the lowest center of gravity. He captured the torque of the engines with his Mk 2 (1961) and the Mk 3 (1962) boxes with 5 gears and enhancements which included a design clear-up and a reduction in weight of 10lbs.

Under pressure from chassis designers who found the rear selector rod increasingly difficult to accommodate in future slim-line cars, the Hewland team formulated the Mk 4(1963) with 5 forward speeds, a Ford Consul differential and a forward facing selector rod on the right hand side. As a result, drivers found gear changes more positive and mechanics found ratio changes much easier. This model found universal acceptance and established the brand.

Two additional models followed in 1964 with the release of the Mk 5 for the high torque Cosworth Ford engine and the Mk 6 (4 Speed) for Formula 3 (1000cc) and used later on Formula Ford cars. By this time, nearly 900 units were racing on circuits world wide.

In my opinion if VW wanted to race a beetle in off road racing they would have looked to Porsche for bits and ease of adaptability surely they had a much closer relationship?


VWSA had a very good relationship with Brazil in those years and the SP was essentially brazillian in concept.

In those days VW was already concentrating on the watercooled ranges with the introduction of the Passat LS coupe which was touted as the first performance VW and which did the magic 100mph in std form a much easier car to build and use as the base for a rally car in a class dominated by escorts and toyotas.

The Black Sp (those Photos were taken in front of my house) differed only from the normal ones in colour. It was given to a lady as a birthday present and was purchased in this condition by a friend of mine.

Regards
Armand

[fig]

NO need for such a reply Fig!

No need to be so oversensitive. I was replying to sp1600 uk's adolescent response to our continued scepticism about his "5-speed 1600SP rally car".

[sp1600 uk]

comments from idiot like clutch are exactly why .
i intend to have the car finished for vw action next year and volksworld have been regularly coming over and taking photos as its been rebuilt .vw audi car magazine did a 4 page article on my car many years ago as it was so unique . so when it does get printed i will enjoy all the appologies that will be due
good bye