Karmann Ghia Convertible

[Ron&Gill]

OK so Karmann build 10 or so in Q4 of 62. That still doesn't mean you could take a T34 from Karmann, drive it to Wolfsburg and VW would turn it into a convertible.

I'm surprised though because I read that in 61, the T34 convertible was binned due to a lack of structural strength, the same reason why the Notch 'vert was binned (which was also due to have been built by Karmann).

Maybe they re-engineered it, but then you would have thought it would have taken off and there would have been many more.

[eben]

I read the standard type 3 cabrios were abandoned because of structural problems but the T34 cabrio because of cost.... maybe the structural changes they had to make would have cost too much to justify proper production.

[fig]

Ron, I think you're taking "Wolfsburg" too literally. I think many people use the term Wolfsburg as a synonym for Volkswagen. When they say Wolfsburg they mean VW factory. The point that we all agree on is the Type 34 cabriolet never reached production; either in Wolfsburg, Osnabruck, Hannover, Uitenhage, Sao Paulo, Clayton or anywhere else VWs were built.

[Ron&Gill]

Yes Eben, you're right about the cost, but the whole T3 Ghia run was doomed because of their price. They were more expensive than the eqv. Porsches. That's why there were so few of them, that and the fact that they are butt-ugly. (VW calls it "contraversial styling.")

Especially compared to the über-sexy Type 14... They should've stopped at perfection...

I think I'll go fetch mine this leave...

Fig, no. There's a claim in this thread that customers could take T34s from Karmann to VW in Wolfburg and they would make them into cabrios and therefore you had a legit T34 cabrio. I am saying this is not true. VW would never have done that because, firstly the structural strength wasn't there and secondly they don't do cabrio's, Karmann does it for them, and thirdly, according to Eben, the cost.

Essentially, the 3 or 4 prototypes, and now the "newly discovered" 10 or 12 Q4 1962 cars by Karmann are the only T34 convertibles or M341s that aren't hack jobs.

I'm not trying to discredit anyone or anything like that, but I would like to see proof of that statement, because it would be a very interesting piece of VW history if it were in fact true. And therefore, I would love to see it. I have searched the internet, but I found nothing except the bit about the 10-20 Q4 62's.

[fig]

Fig, no. There's a claim in this thread that customers could take T34s from Karmann to VW in Wolfburg and they would make them into cabrios and therefore you had a legit T34 cabrio.

And I'm saying the person who made that claim is using Wolfsburg to mean VW factory and you are taking them too literally. This is just my point of view. Only the person who wrote that can say what they really meant. Believe whatever pleases you.

[eben]

Whatever the case may be... any nicely converted T34 cabrio would be
-worthy for me...

[Ron&Gill]

No Fig man... The first post mentions "ordered from Wolfsburg" and I can buy that as a ordered from VW, even a KG. KGs were ordered from VW dealers, so yes... fine

The post I have a problem with is Muds' saying the conversion was done in "the" VW factory. If he means Karmann, fine, I don't acually know if they dealt that closely with the customer, i.e. you buy one of their cars and then bring it back to them to mod... maybe... But VW defo did not do that.

That's all. Like I said, If Muds knows something I don't, I'd like to read about it, so if he can point me to it, the link he posted does not support what he says unfortunately, I would be very happy.

[jmvv]

Now, now, children. Play nice.

I did not mean to start any arguments with this post. According to the owner of the car, it went straight from the factory to whoever did the conversion. It was then subsequently delivered as a brand new T34 Karmann Ghia Convertible to the then German Consul in Pretoria - even though VW never produced such a model.

This one of the articles he sent me:



What makes this car interesting is that it has the roof cover exactly as in the picture, even down to an aluminium strip that runs round the outside of the cover.

[fig]

There were literally dozens of coachbuilders in Germany in the 1950s and 1960s and many of them built all sorts of weird and wonderful creations based on the Beetle and other VWs. This could have been converted by any of them, including Karmann.

I'm glad this cabrio is being restored.

[Ron&Gill]

Hmm... the plot thins... 348 xxx makes it a much later model than a Q4 62. Mine is a 64 and it's a 345 001 469 (and yes, it's in the registry). Who then was the nefrarious coachbuilder who did the mod (M341) on this car to look so much like the Karmann. Karmann?

If it was Karmann, doesn't that make this car "the" Karmann convertible T34 which was never made outside of the 2 or 3 prototypes and the Q4 62 dozen or so?

It is definitely a great project. All I can say is good luck finding parts... especially head and fog lights. Took me 4 years of scrounging to get enough bits together to make up 4 reasonable and far from perfect head lights and in particular fog lights.

Well, there's enough folk on this forum who know exactly what that is like...

[Pine]

A bit off-topic (but not toooooo much ) - this guy converted a 1:43 Corgi Type 34 Ghia (which are pretty RARE already btw) to a.....uhm - CONVERTIBLE!


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[Ron&Gill]

Interesting, they are in the same colours as the Karmann museum's prototypes

[LeeHedges]

Hi guys & gals! I've been reading your discussion and thought it might be appropriate to jump-in. I run T34 World (http://www.T34World.org ) and maintain the T34 World Registry, a detailed database & archives with over 1250 T34s documented by their VIN#s. Because T34s are so rare and information is tough to find, many rumors get circulated that tend to blur the truth. I've been working for the past 25 years to clarify the T34 marque with facts, photos, and research.

The T34 Cabriolet in question is a 1968 that has already been registered in our archives. It definietly has been modified by a private owner as a Cabrio replica.

There is a German company LORENZ that modified Coupes into Cabriolets based on customer's requests. VW nor Karmann were ever involved in these conversions.

M341 History: When Volkswagen decided to build the new VW 1500 series they always planned to offer the Sports Coupe & Sports Cabriolet models, following the same marketing plan as the first Karmann Ghia. Carrozzeria Ghia in Turin, Italy would design the Sports Coupe body, then hand a prototype off to the Wilhelm Karmann factory in Osnabruck, Germany. Karmann would then prepare the Sports Coupe for production, work out all the details, make modifications where necessary, and also create the Sports Cabriolet model. Ghia handed-off their VW 1500 Sports Coupe prototype to Karmann in early 1960. Karmann reworked the design and had the two pre-production models available in April 1961 for press photos. Then in September 1961 both models were on public display at the Frankfurt International Auto Show. Interestingly, in 2005 a Karmann engineer confided that the Frankfurt show Cabriolet did not have a functional top frame since there was not enough time to design it before the show. It is believed that Karmann built 17 prototype Cabriolet models in the 1961-62 timeframe although Karmann has not uncovered any records. These were for initial testing & evaluation, promotional events, and press photos. None of these were offered to the public for sale although most ended up in the hands of prominent VW dealerships in Germany as show- pieces for their dealership showrooms. Volkswagen finally placed an order for "Nullserie" (pre-production) T34 Cabriolets in October 1962, one year after the unveiling at Frankfurt. It is not known why there was a delay in this production, but it was common for the Cabriolet model to be released 2 years after the Coupe. Karmann built 10 fully-functional production Cabriolets from October-December 1962 as well as 6 incomplete bodies not mated to a rolling chassis. At the end of 1962 VW cancelled the 341 program at Karmann. The project was halted because Karmann was not meeting its production quotas for the other VW coachbuilt models (T14 Coupe, T14 Cabriolet, & Beetle Cabriolet). The M341 project was never restarted. Most believe it was due to the high cost to build the M341, VWs decision not to offer T34s to the USA (70% of T14s were sold to the USA), and the labor shortage issues at Karmann. These Cabriolets were also given to prominent VW dealerships but never offered for sale to the public. There are currently five existing authentic T34 Cabriolets that have survived today, all in Germany.

I also own an early-1965 M346 (RHD Electric Sunroof #345 012 044) that was originally exported to Cape Town, South Africa after the owner's European vacation was over. It lived in Jeffrey's Baii for many years, owned by a W. "JJ" Viljoen, then was sold to Gordon Davidson who visited Jeffrey's Baii often from his home in Leeds, England. Gordon eventually exported the T34 back to England in 1999. I bought it in 2004 and have been slowly restoring it over the past 7 years (has it really been that long?!!!). I've been working with the T34 World's SA rep Greg Davids to discover more about Mr. Viljoen while my M346 lived in SA but because it's been out of the SA system for a long time the info is buried and difficult to find. Greg is also keenly interested in finding the existing T34s in SA, so please contact him at

T34 World has a monthly PDF magazine called T34 World News that is free to all interested in T34s. Here are the links to the first two editions. The #3 is due to be published April 1st (no joke).
http://www.leehedges.com/t34/t34world/t ... 011no1.pdf
http://www.leehedges.com/t34/t34world/t ... 011no2.pdf

Enjoy!


LEE HEDGES
San Diego, California USA
1962 T34 Cabrio replica #0 001 776 "Ruby" http://www.leehedges.com/ruby.htm
1965 T34 RHD Electric Sunroof M346 #345 012 044 "Jeffrey" http://www.leehedges.com/jeffrey.htm
Founder, T34 World http://www.T34World.org

[Pine]

Hi Lee, thanks for a very informative 1st post, and to ACVWSA!!