Why I love type 4 engines

[Muderick]

taken from the net...

For many years the Type 4 engine has been a well kept secret by many, a mystery to others, and plagued with bad information. Those that knew about the Type 4 and it's awesome potential, kept the knowledge to themselves so that the masses would be in awe over their unusual engine.

Why a Type 4 engine?

One may wonder why anyone would want something besides the inexpensive and easily obtainable Type 1 engine in a Bug (or whatever else you drive). There are numerous reasons why a Type 4 should be considered for your project.

Reliability: The Type 4 should be on top of your list if reliability and longevity are what you are looking for. Unlike the Type 1, a Type 4 in stock form uses a conventional spin-on oil filter in addition to the oil strainer at the oil pickup tube in the oil sump. The filter increases the life of the engine considerably as the bearing only receives thoroughly filtered oil.

The Type 4 also had a larger oil cooler, larger oil pump, dual relief case, "sand seal" (a seal at the end of the crank shaft where the fan/pulley mounts), larger flywheel/clutch with 5-bolt mounting, and increased oil capacity (3.5 liters versus 2.5 liters in the Type 1). The Type 4 also used an aluminum alloy in the case that made it stronger than the weaker magnesium alloy used in the Type 1 case. Everything about a Type 4 is just stronger.

Performance: First reason is, of course, for increased performance. A stock 2.0 liter can put out 100hp in stock form: that's over 40hp more than a stock 1600cc Type 1. Take that 100hp 2.0, add dual Webers/Dellortos, centrifugal advance distributor, and a header/quiet pack exhaust system, and you'll amaze everyone, including yourself. That kind of performance and many years of reliable operation.

Type 4 stroker cranks are available up to 90mm and big-bore kits to 105mm, giving a maximum displacement of 3119cc (190.3 ci)! Luckily the Type 4 crankcase is constructed of an aluminum alloy, thus it is more tolerant of higher rpms and higher temperatures. The Type 4 cylinder heads also feature larger intake ports (all dual-port), larger valves, and a larger ratio rocker (1.3:1 versus the 1.1:1 for the 1600cc T1).

Another practical feature of the Type 4 engine is the fact that the cylinder heads and the cylinders feature more cooling fin area than the Type 1 engine. This means that the Type 4 engine can cool itself quicker. With a properly built Type 4, you can take advantage of this extra cooling by increasing the compression ratio, which will increase the power the engine produces.

Curb appeal: I've always believed that form follows function. That means that looks are second; if something works better but isn't the most "fashionable", the part that works better wins. It's like the old say "chrome don't get you home". That's what makes the Type 4 so great. If you're looking for a conversation piece, a Type 4 will do it. When people see that you don't have a standard Type 1, they're going to inquire what kind of engine it is. This especially happens when a Type 4 is used with any of the upright cooling systems. The look is unmistakable!

[Bratjie]

Great write up on this engine, I have often wondered how things would have turned out with an engine like this before I turbo'ed the 1600 and the wbx, how are they for turbo applications?

[retrovan]

Thanks for nothing Muds........
You have single highhandedly made the type 4 Engine unobtainable, and very, very expensive.....Thanks Hey!!
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Only pulling your socks,
thanks for the good write up,
has been my opinion from the start.
Had VW got to this point earlier we may still be having aircooled engines in some VW's
All they had to do would have been the Volksporsche 4 & 6 cylinder that had been "tickled" by Porsche, into production, and history would have been totally different.

I Love my Type 4 .......

Herman

[Tony Z]

Thanks for nothing Muds........
You have single highhandedly made the type 4 Engine unobtainable, and very, very expensive.....Thanks Hey!!

Oneday I'll put one into a beetle too

100_3070.JPG

[62vwbeetle]

So where do I get one at a fair price

[retrovan]

Thanks for nothing Muds........
You have single highhandedly made the type 4 Engine unobtainable, and very, very expensive.....Thanks Hey!!

Oneday I'll put one into a beetle too

100_3070.JPG

So thats where they at......



Oh Tony,.......... I was thinking of a trip to CT with the bakkie...................

Exactly WHERE did you say you stored them.......



Herman

[Bugger]

I think Armant (Impi) and myself was 2 of the very few who played with the Type 4 engines back in the early 90`s as every one said the TYpe 4 are crap
I did a 11 seconds 1/4 mile run with my Buggy back in 1998 with turbo and still very few guys liked the Type 4
Even Type 4 Guru Raybie from the Usofa was not so big in the TYpe 4 but for me it was a cheap Power alternative
I have ofset stroked a 71mm 2L type 4 crank to 75mm using the early Golf 1600 conrods with the 46mm B/e bearing to obtain the 75mm stroke to make
be able to build a Type 4 just over 2.1 with bigger pistons and Boy did the Big V8 manne have trouble catching us

And Remember I do have more than 20 Type 4 casings heads cranks and everything you need to build a type 4 that is For sale and
Type 4 heads we got 1700 1800 and 2L CU and CJ heads in both Configurations

Pierre
VdubTECH
011 822 2799

[Tony Z]

Herman, you are welcome to come to CPT with a bakkie.
At 130kg each without help, I'll happily watch you try

[retrovan]

Herman, you are welcome to come to CPT with a bakkie.
At 130kg each without help, I'll happily watch you try

That sounds like a challenge I can not refuse.
At what number will you stop me loading.
(Also will not tell you but have done it solo once before.)

Herman

[Muderick]

Some more Type 4 love...

Identifying Type 4 Crank cases

If you have just purchased a Type 4 engine and are curious what size it is (originally) and what features that engine came with from the factory, this is your page.
To successfully identify your engine, you need to find your engine code and serial number. The code is generally one or two letters, and the serial number will follow it. You'll find these in one of two locations. This is an either/or situation: you'll only find in one of the locations pointed to on this picture below

[dixtoy]

What would a reasonable price be to pay for a 2l flat4. Complete with electronic ignition and apparently in good running condition.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1385022444.281633.jpg

[Muderick]

I normally see them going from R4k onwards.

As all things 2nd hand, its a gamble. Make sure you do all the checks... I will add some more info about Type 4 engines at a later stage, to help identify different aspects about these gems.

Of the 3 type 4 engines I own, all were bought 2nd hand. End play is not usually a problem on type 4 engines (2l in particular)... even with a fair amount of end play they still keep going... I can vouch for this personally having driven my last motor everyday for 6 years, and driven to George Car show from CT 3 x.

This year I decided to put her to pasture and rebuild the motor from scratch. If I did not, she would still have been running now, almost a year later.
Fig once told me how he drove on of his buses with type 4 motor, from JHB to CT and back to JHB without any hassles. That motor also had end play, believe it or not.

They are basically almost bullet proof....

I would love to buy a new one one day... wink wink!!

Muds

[Tony Z]

Cool thread Muds

[fig]

Fig once told me how he drove on of his buses with type 4 motor, from JHB to CT and back to JHB without any hassles. That motor also had end play, believe it or not.

I don't remember the conversation, but it most likely referred to a type1 engine. My first wife and I drove our Fleetline panelvan, with several millemetres of end float, on honeymoon from Jhb to the Wild Coast and back, as well as from Jhb to Botswana (Lobatse & Gaborone) and back several times. I eventually retired that engine and it was still going strong except for the end float.

My only type4 engined bus atm is my 74 Autovilla, which has driven Jhb to Tankwa Karoo twice with a vrot engine, with lots of blow-by. No problems except high fuel and oil consumption. One of the type4 engines IMPI is currently building is for my Autovilla. It will be 2056cc with Keith Black 96mm pistons and Web 86 cam and WBX fuel injection and electronic ignition. I can't wait for it to be ready!

AFAIK the main weakness of type4 engines is the heads, which have a habit of spitting out their valve seats, especially after overheating. Those who know how can build heads with stronger valve seats, but it seems, like all ACVW engines, that you should rebuild the heads every 50,000km to ensure reliability and long engine life.

It's also extremely difficult to find non-standard size main bearings, which is a problem if the crank has been ground or the case line bored. Last year I bought a 2-litre engine that had good compression and had allegedly been rebuilt by Vee Motors. It ran fine on the bench but, once it was in the car, it had a knock and the oil llight came on as soon as the engine warmed up. On stripdown it was found to have shim stock betweeen the main bearings and the case to take up play from line boring.

As well as the FI 2056cc engine IMPI is building for me, there's an 1800 upright conversion in the queue which is likely destined for one of my split buses. I'm looking forward to doing some serious mileage with type4 engines in the future.

[dixtoy]

Where can one get the upright conversion from?