Solar powered Beetle

[fig]

We'll keep our aircooleds running long after petrol becomes obsolete:
http://www.wheels24.co.za/News/Gear_and ... y-20160921

[Pine]

Is that a.... sun roof?

[freddiebooysen]

Good contingency plan.



Freddie Booysen
72 lowlight
74 beetle

[Tony Z]

ai fok tog
I hate being pessimistic, but this thing just isnt going to work. How far does she think she'll get with two 300W solar panels on the roof. Yea, OK, she is in a class where she can recharge any time that she wants - but isnt that defeating the purpose?
Just looking at the car, I think the term "hypermiling" has bypassed her completely.

Each to their own... I suspect its a marketing ploy with little intention of actually doing well in the event.

[Dawid$1234$]

Last time I spoke to Santa, this bug will cost you about R180k...

[fig]

Yes, Santa is determined to prove her electric Beetle conversion to make it commercially available as an affordable electric car. It also incorporates a compressed gas engine charged by regenerative braking and other wasted energy.

I have my doubts about electrc vehicles so long as they rely on Eskom to charge up. I can't wait for the day a solar powered car is available. There's a guy in the US who has built an electric split bus and is now working on solar, using roof panels and a trailer with more solar panels.

[Dawie]

Zingbug people mention their aim is just to finish the race. Range 30-75 kilos on a charge. They stop to recharge from a large solar array. Eating also seems important to this team. They cook their food using sun energy, and pictures show solar-powered refrigerators at their tent.

Plenty of rules for main classes... Surface size of solar collectors are limited to 6 square meters for silicon crystalline type and 3 square meters if more efficient Gallium arsenide types are used. The UJ team uses a R5 million Ga-As solar collector.
Think a special class for low-budget vehicles would be nice in future.

Most interesting and practical vehicle, i think, is the only entrant in the "cruiser" class.
This is a two-seater. Relative roomy inside. From Lodz Poland.

[Dawie]

Zingbug is still in the race, although in a special class. (It is allowed to recharge at any time from an external source).

Today will be the finish in Cape Town.
Results yesterday at Swellendam:
1) Nuon 510.3km (TOTAL: 4 297.3km)
2) Tokai 480.8km (TOTAL: 4 124.8km)
3) GAMF 171km (TOTAL: 3613.8km)
4) NWU 333.3km (TOTAL: 3301.7km)
5) Lodz 393.1km (TOTAL: 2 529.2km)
6) TUT 194.4km (TOTAL: 1897.1km)
7) NEU 244.8km (TOTAL: 1 411.9km)
8 ) Maragon 53.6km (TOTAL: 1 247.4km)
9) UJ 163.2km (TOTAL: 1 128.4km)
10) ZingBug 162km (TOTAL: 1012.5km)

Found a website for the Zing, diy kits:
https://www.zingclub.co.za/products/diy ... 5523093633
Starting at R35 000 for a 3 kilowatt motor and controller, excluding batteries. Intended for lightweight beach buggies and kit cars.

https://www.zingclub.co.za/products/do- ... 5148792001
R125 000 for the 20 Kw motor and controller. (Excluding batteries).
Batteries from
R35 000 to R180 000. Weight of batteries 100-360 Kg.
Speed of 75km/h for 10 kw version and 100km/h for 20 kw.

[Dawie]

Nuon team from Delft set a new world record today when they won the longest solar race in the world.

Objective is to cover as much possible distance in a given time. When they reach their daily destination ahead of time, they drive in loups to increase distance travelled until daily cutoff time.

Those cars too slow to reach daily cutoff time gets trailered to destination, but only distance travelled by own power counts. Which explain why the Zing could still reach the finish.

FINAL RESULTS:

1) Delft University of Technology - Nuon Solar (Netherlands): 4716.7km
2) Tokai University - Tokai Solar (Japan): 4544.2km
3) Kecskemét University - GAMF Solar (Hungary): 4033.2km
4) North West University - NWU Solar (SA): 3524.9km
5) Lodz University of Technology - Lodz Cruiser (Poland): 2817.8km
6) Tshwane University of Technology - TUT Solar (SA): 2120.3km
7) Near East University - NEU Solar (Northern Cyprus): 1635.1km
8 ) Maragon Olympus - Solar Eagles (SA): 1378.1km
9) University of Johannesburg - UJ Solar (SA): 1337.9km
10) Zingbug - ZingCO EV (SA): 1108.5km

"Well done to Nuon and all the teams and crews!

PRESS RELEASE:

Solar cars cross the finish line as records tumble

The V&A Waterfront in Cape Town was the scene of celebration today as 11 teams from all over the world crossed the finish line after successfully driving just over 27,000 kilometres collectively on public roads on solar power alone.

Dutch team Nuon won the Challenger class after completing 4,716 km, breaking the four-year old record of 4,630 kilometres and beating Japanese team Tokai by 172 kilometres."

[Dawie]

Was Zing's participation more of a publicity stunt? Nice that they took a beetle as example. Their conversions are available for other vehicles as well.

As per previous post and link, their most expensine 20 Kw kit + batteries- R125 000 + R180 000= R305 000. Then you still have to pay Eskom and replace batteries when they fail.
Their recommended option for town driving (up to 75 km/h), is 10 Kw kit- R60 000 + R50 000 = R110 000 giving 40- 50 km range before recharge.

What other options are there?
Split beetle and early ovals had 19 Kw/ (25 hp) 1130 cc engine, 5.8:1 compression ratio to run on very poor quality 74 octane fuel available that time. It did just over 100 km/h on a level road. About similar speed as a 1500 split kombi.
If we are prepared to compromise to that performance...

Two-cylinder vw engines have been built for aviation purposes.


Around the world some were buit by individuals for road use. Back in the day there was a farmer in the Kouebokkeveld who did one for his early oval beetle.

Not necessary to shorten case and crank for road use. Just plug cylinder and pushrod openings. Plug relevant oil holes in crank and case. Half a 1600 of 50 hp gives 800cc and 25 hp. Cheaper to build. Only 2 pistons/cylinders needed. Heads cut in half. Less guides to replace. In fact a head which had one chamber ruined by broken valve or seat can be cut and other half used.
We could apply special thermal and friction coatings if we wish... Half price because only 2 cylinders + 2chambers.

Ideal for some uses like neighbourhood watch patrols, students driving to college, etc.
Better than walking or using a bike on a cold, wet, rainy day...

[Réhann]

Hi there

I haven't been to the forum for a very long time, but I worked with Team zingBug on the Sasol Solar Challenge. I will react to some of the comments made here. Not to be a pain in the behind, but just to clarify some points.

Is that a.... sun roof?

Actually, that panel on the roof just recharges a bank of scooter batteries that run the instrumentation inside the car. No more than that.

ai fok tog
I hate being pessimistic, but this thing just isnt going to work. How far does she think she'll get with two 300W solar panels on the roof. Yea, OK, she is in a class where she can recharge any time that she wants - but isnt that defeating the purpose?
Just looking at the car, I think the term "hypermiling" has bypassed her completely.

Each to their own... I suspect its a marketing ploy with little intention of actually doing well in the event.

I'm not sure exactly how you feel it won't work, so I won't assume I have the exact answers. But let me tell you what did work on the Challenge.

The car is propelled by a 48-volt motor that runs off eight lead-acid deep-cycle batteries. These batteries are recharged off a solar panel array that kicks at about 1,5kW. If you're interested, I can upload a pic. In its class (Sustainability Fleet), the car can indeed recharge at any time, also overnight.

So every morning the zingBug would leave just after 8:00, drive for two hours (time limit per driver) and then it was towed to the control stop, where it was recharged off the solar panel array for 2,5 to 3 hours. Then it drove the second leg. The best distance the car managed on a single charge was 108km - inside the two-hour limit.

The idea behind its participation was not merely a marketing ploy. It was in fact a "proof of concept". To complete the Challenge, a car has to complete at least 1 000km under its own steam and the zingBug managed just over 1 100km.

...Plenty of rules for main classes... Surface size of solar collectors are limited to 6 square meters for silicon crystalline type and 3 square meters if more efficient Gallium arsenide types are used. The UJ team uses a R5 million Ga-As solar collector.
Think a special class for low-budget vehicles would be nice in future.

Most interesting and practical vehicle, i think, is the only entrant in the "cruiser" class.
This is a two-seater. Relative roomy inside. From Lodz Poland.

From what I understand, the 2018 rules will only allow the "3,5sqm" cars.

But I want to respectfully differ with your opinion on the Polish car. Although it does have two seats (the new Cruiser class is for solar-powered cars that can transport more than one person), the closest to a practical solution is in fact the zingBug.

When its production starts towards the second half of next year, it will probably cost around R220 000. Not cheap by any measure. But Santa explained it quite well: There is a market for electric cars. On the one side of the spectrum is Tesla - and on the other side is the zingBug.

[Dawie]

Thanks for the inside info. Can you tel us more about the event and Zingbug and post some pictures?

Those 8 batteries, are they the 150 Ah ones referred to on Zing's website, probably size "692" ? Roughly 1.8 kWh per battery or 1.2 if discharge depth 33%, x8, probably 10kWh?
What speed did Zingbug typically do, and how did it do during long uphill mountain conditions? Regenerative braking used downhill? Maybe a larger or two solar trailers would have improved range on day's second leg. Would rules allow a solar trailer being towed by the car?

[Tony Z]

I'm not sure exactly how you feel it won't work, so I won't assume I have the exact answers. But let me tell you what did work on the Challenge.

The car is propelled by a 48-volt motor that runs off eight lead-acid deep-cycle batteries. These batteries are recharged off a solar panel array that kicks at about 1,5kW. If you're interested, I can upload a pic. In its class (Sustainability Fleet), the car can indeed recharge at any time, also overnight.

So every morning the zingBug would leave just after 8:00, drive for two hours (time limit per driver) and then it was towed to the control stop, where it was recharged off the solar panel array for 2,5 to 3 hours. Then it drove the second leg. The best distance the car managed on a single charge was 108km - inside the two-hour limit.

The idea behind its participation was not merely a marketing ploy. It was in fact a "proof of concept". To complete the Challenge, a car has to complete at least 1 000km under its own steam and the zingBug managed just over 1 100km.

the zingBug.

I suppose each persons idea of what works and what doesnt work differs in this case.
As for proof of concept,
solar panels can provide power - proven already
Power from panels can charge batteries - proven already
batteries can drive a DC motor - proven already
DC motor can be used to drive a car - proven already
Your control system used to drive this vehicle - OK, this is probably the proof of concept.

In my opinion, driving for 100km, then getting towed so I can recharge for 3 hours and drive a little further, then recharge overnight so I can do it again tomorrow is not exactly a working solution. This is why I said it wont work.
Heck, from where I live to Cape Town center and back is 60km. This will take me 2 days in your vehicle. It'll be quicker on a bicycle even with my poor fitness level. This isnt a working system in my opinion. And the result is pretty much what I expected it to be.
Yes it works and you can drive on electric power. But you cant use the car in any functional manner.

If this was your aim, then yes, 100% success and well done.
For the kind of money that it cost you... I'd definitely do it differently.

Hopefully you can improve on the design and make better progress in the future. Good luck.

[Réhann]

The forum kicked me off after typing my reply, so I a just going to do a quick reply here.

As I said in my first post in this thread, I worked with the zingBug team. It isn't my team or my car. The zingBug is one of 26 projects assisted by my client, GCIP-SA. I went with to do media and communication during the SSC.

I suppose each persons idea of what works and what doesnt work differs in this case.
As for proof of concept,
solar panels can provide power - proven already
Power from panels can charge batteries - proven already
batteries can drive a DC motor - proven already
DC motor can be used to drive a car - proven already
Your control system used to drive this vehicle - OK, this is probably the proof of concept.
In my opinion, driving for 100km, then getting towed so I can recharge for 3 hours and drive a little further, then recharge overnight so I can do it again tomorrow is not exactly a working solution. This is why I said it wont work.
Heck, from where I live to Cape Town center and back is 60km. This will take me 2 days in your vehicle. It'll be quicker on a bicycle even with my poor fitness level. This isnt a working system in my opinion. And the result is pretty much what I expected it to be.
Yes it works and you can drive on electric power. But you cant use the car in any functional manner.
If this was your aim, then yes, 100% success and well done.
For the kind of money that it cost you... I'd definitely do it differently.
Hopefully you can improve on the design and make better progress in the future. Good luck.

The "proof of concept" here was not to see if the elements you mentioned above can work. The stuff is available in shops, so it is safe to say that they do work.

The concept to prove here is that this electric city car can actually work within its limitations. And that was proven.

The alternative is a Nissan Leaf that at R477 900 gives an alleged 135km. If you want the quick charger with the car, which you would need if you're going to use car daily for more than just to work and back, you're looking at more than half a bar. Also for a car that "you cant use... in any functional manner". Yet, Nissan did it.

I am probably more skeptical than you about hybrids and cars with alternative-energy powertrains. If it doesn't smell like petrol (or two-stroke or diesel), it doesn't excite me.

I, self-confessed petrolhead, drove 5 000km in a Prius to follow the SSC. And although I was very impressed with what the car could do and how comfortable it was, for R455 300 I would rather buy a couple of older cars that have done their carbon-footprint time and restore/reviatlise them.

But this zingBug proved that a practical electrical solution that can be bolted onto an existing platform exists. And although I would like to say my brilliant media work did it, lots of people came to the end venues to speak to Santa about this. One old chap in Bloemfontein made seven phone calls and drove 65km to come and see the car and ask for more details. Even in the dorpies along the way like Edenburg, Jansenville, Humansdorp and Caledon.

There are people out there looking at this and a lot of them own Beetles. I don't know whether they want to convert to electric because parts are scarce or maintenance is too high. But I do know that they want to prolong the practical lives of these wonderful cars and I really, really like that.

[Réhann]

Thanks for the inside info. Can you tel us more about the event and Zingbug and post some pictures?

Those 8 batteries, are they the 150 Ah ones referred to on Zing's website, probably size "692" ? Roughly 1.8 kWh per battery or 1.2 if discharge depth 33%, x8, probably 10kWh?
What speed did Zingbug typically do, and how did it do during long uphill mountain conditions? Regenerative braking used downhill? Maybe a larger or two solar trailers would have improved range on day's second leg. Would rules allow a solar trailer being towed by the car?

Hallo Dawie

Sadly my technical knowledge about the car is very limited, but I will suggest to Santa to come and register here and tell you more. Alternatively, please feel free to mail her on santa6 at mweb dot co dot za.

The zingBug could manage around 70km/h without straining anything. Uphill it dropped to 20km/h in some serious mountains. The Miser hydraulic motor popped two seals on Day One and it was decided to take it out and run on just the 48V motor from Day Two onwards. The Miser system uses regenerative braking, but without it there was none of that. The car is allowed to free-wheel downhill though, so that saved battery life.

The zingBug did not tow the solar trailer. (It was towed by a T3 Syncro, incidentally. Santa's Jetta TDi made it an all-VW team, except for my media Prius ) I'm not sure if it is specifically excluded, but the towing of trailers is not an option for a car competing in the SSC.

That is the irony of course: While the teams are making huge discoveries with their solar-powered cars, their support staff drive in trucks, minibuses, SUVs and MPVs. Not very green...

Santa ran this event on a shoestring budget with a very small team. And although the Syncro was heavy on fuel, it did not compare to the three trucks that the Dutch and Japanese teams had - never mind their fleets of other cars.