Aircooled VW South Africa

Like the way you think....

Now lets look at the facts...

The Split box is not made for that amount of power.

The reduction gears will over-rev the motor to destruction without going anywhere.

The road holding of the split bus will get you killed over 120 KpH

The body will twist like a kooksister every time you hit the gas.

Now before you want to shoot me...... I am fitting a Type 4 Flat motor to my Fleetline, tight fit but we will make it work without destroying the good looks of the back end...

Also going to fit big wheels to make up the road speed to get it to cruse at 120KpH.

But that is where i am stopping....

If you want to go the full monty, take a late bay with all its road gear in place, (safe base to start with, fit the split body to the base, and fit what ever motor you want......and if you are bright, you will fit an extra100mm into the back end of the split body, no one will notice, and you will be able to fit the 911 motor with ease

Hey!! ..only my opinion, and will probably be shot for making it......

Heman

Thanks for the reply Tony Z

I have also had a number of people say to me I should consider the Subaru engine but for me that doesn't fit well with the Porsche/VW way of things a better option maybe the Type 4 engine route but I think that may only happen after I have exhausted all possible avenues for the Porsche build.

In light of the gearbox issue, that's exactly the information I am looking for, will there be a lot of customization, cutting or complete rebuild? What sort of modifications need to be done? Would there be chopped holes in the cab area in the back or as I've seen from other Porsche buses the engine is either pushed back were the flywheel protrudes out of the back engine back compartment.....not that I have to must issues with that as I have seen some nice jobs done...re the YouTube bus above.

Thanks so much for the info, look forward to any further posts

Sean

Retrovan! That is some interesting infirmation!

Funny you mention that because the guy I bought my bus from had a double cab and a 11 window and he was telling me he bought a bay window for 4k AMD was going to salvage the parts from it to help build the other two busses. I just didnt think of replacing the chassis.....very interesting!!

I'm sure there is a few users out there cringing at the thought, but that's it, it's a thought. Saying that though I have a meeting with a guy who does the spray jobs and structural welding for the cars at Killarney so based on what he says maybe I can just box section the shit out of the chassis.

Eeeish it's even making me cringe a little as I do want the outside to be close to stock but safety first! Hehe

Thanks for your post, some more brain food to much on.

So far others has covered this well.

Think 58 had the vertically split transmission and different rear torsion tube. Meaning less space for the transmission. As Retrovan mentioned, the engine lid on a split kombi is at least 100mm closer to the gearbox than on a baywindow. Meaning that the engine lid will be right against the 6 cylinder Porsche fan's intake, blocking airflow.

Going the type 4 way is probably best, as it would be easy to change back to original later.

By the way,... the 911 engine will fit directly onto a vw gearbox. No adapter plate needed there. But the 3L 911 engine has more torque than even the bay vw box can comfortably handle over the long term. Has been done, but do'nt expect it to last too long. Reduction boxes- out of the question. If you had the space, Porsche type 915 or G50 box would be the answer...

Other problem: In SA, accident damaged Porsche 911 cars does not get scrapped. Unfortunately, they just get bent back into shape and sold to an unsuspecting customer. Even a badly damaged 911 SC may still reach well over R100 000. If it's lhd, maybe a bit less.

There are guys selling imported 911 engines and gearboxes. That's probably cheapest way to find an engine and gearbox.

Another thing... when i bought my 2.7S engine and 5 speed box 3 decades ago, they were 7 years old. There are still good 3L SC engines around, but remember that these are now 30 years old. Some will need a very expensive rebuild, costing even more than you would pay for the engine.

Lots of precision workmanship, innovation and dedication (and a very deep pocket), will be needed to do this conversion to a split kombi.

Much easier to go the type 4 route.

Sean...now there you have the gospel from all those in the know....

Do you remember when we had this conversation almost 2 months ago? I told you that Type 4 2l bus engine would make over enough power for you, even in stock format.

At best, by your own admission, you only want a 3l Porker motor out back, just so that you can say " I have a 3l Porker motor out back..."

A stock 2l Type 4 engine makes about 52kw/70BHP in stock guise, but you will be surprised how much that power will be for your split bus already!! With just 52kw, you could cruise at 110 - 120 kph all day long provided your gearing and removal of the RGB's are sorted.

Now add some twin carb Webers or Dellortos, some mods to the bottom end and to the heads and you will be amazed at the power you can extract from a Type 4 2l mill. I have been driving my bus with my 2 l Type 4 engine for the past 6 years EVERY SINGLE DAY as my daily, and can vouch for its reliability, power and torque it produces even while stock standard like mine, provided you look after it well. My bus has gone to George 4 times without ANY hassles, and no over-heating at all. My club members can vouch for this and the fact that I can drive it from Cape Town to George in 4th gear! Unless I have some old lady in front of me crawling along at 40 kph and there is nowhere for me to pass, I dont even have to change up from 4th gear. All the mountain passes included.

Type 4 power is definitely the way to go if you constantly dont want the motor out all the time, dont like spending your hard earned cash as if you are averse to it, or you want to do
an engine conversion into your 58 with the least amount of effort.

Then again, we can only lead you to water Sean... whether you drink or not is up to you.

Muds

Remember that back in the day, VW went to the extreme to design the first kombi body to be aerodynamically efficient, and have a good strength to weight ratio. Aerodynamic coefficient is better than a beetle. (But overall drag obviously more because of the size).
Weight of split kombi is much less than a new Corolla.
This was done because the available engine at the time was 1100cc and 19 kw.

So, at lower legal speeds, a type 4 engined split kombi performs exceptionally well.

Aaaaargh!!

Ok before a rather large ACME hammer falls from the sky with the words TYPE 4 on it and smacks me on the head, let me please confirm something.

In the event that I find a well looked after or recently rebuilt 3.0L engine and at the same time find a G50 or 915 gearbox AND I strengthen the chassis AND make space for the Porsche Fan in the engine lid area.......AND Im completely retarded and decide I still want to spend money on all of this.....is it still doable? With the quoted parts and modifications will it fit and work?

Then, say if I am not able to find a 3.0L but am able to find a 911T 2.2L would my hassles be sightly less? Or just as difficult?

I know, Im my worst enemy, I like the idea of having and engine in the back which says Porsche and to be frank a Porsche engine just has that totally recognizable sound to it.

Perhaps I need to be at Bug Jam 2012 and check out some Type 4's maybe that will change my mind......

Thanks all, really for your help and info, it means alot!!

Another question....

IF I went the Type 4 route what sort of figures am I looking at if I done the engine right up, all the bells and whistles....ball park figure.....and what sort of performance/figures/specifications would come with that?

Thanks again!!

Pzeeeeeeeeet!...... Wanna by a Porsche sticker

Guaranteed to cover any VW Badge .....Cheap!! ??

The saving will be thousands........

Herman

Ooooh thats a saving of 15000% Yes Please!!

Hehe

Hi been watching this with interest. If you know what you are doing and have lots of free cash go for the Porsche route I would estimate very little change from R200000 if done right
the type four route with a nice 2.4 liter engine and beetle box probably R120000
The type one done up nicely probably R80000.
To get to this price I assume the body will be in for about R20000 in metal work and repairs and a close to stock local interior with a lot (about 60% used stuff)

The Subaru route may possibly equal the Type one route

The chassis is pretty strong and I would fit samba belly pans for strength
front suspension I would lift from a late bay
rear suspension in case of the Porsche engine and box would have to loose the torsion bars so that the box and engine would sit further forward keeping the body outside dimensions normal. this would mean custom A arms and coil overs at the back. Bus brake disks can be swopped with Audi Quattro parts for great brakes at probably more down to earth costs as well as sane parts availability. Bens parts same story.
With the rest a bay rear clip with a built bus box makes mere sense
looking out for the build pictures
Armand

In the last few months I have done quite a few split busses
Currently buzy building a 2.4 Type 4 motor for a SPlit bus I am going to fit my Adjustable Back straight axle suspension
With one of my Stage 1 Transmissions capable of Handling (PROVEN 180KW ON THE WHEELS) with a longer 4th gear
This bus is not getting built for Drags but for Pleasure
Then the next project is getting a 2.5 Oettinger Turbo WBX motor with all the above mods and my Own Disc brake conversion for SPlit busses
this bus the owner is going to do some GTI Hiding with

The other one is the 15Window Fleetline that I fitted the Rotary turbo motor in with nice Turbo Upgrade and this bus is nice and low so yes there are other
Mad hatters like you and me out there that is doing this to split busses

I have saved Quite a number of ACVW`s which was ready for the Scrap bin and they are running (Ok some not ACVW) but they are on the road


Here is the one getting the Oettinger Turbo motor

Just some TYpe 4 Spec

1999 I did a 11.1 Sec 1/4 Mile with a 2.4 Turbo Type 4 motor in my Beach Buggy
300HP and 600Nm Torq on the wheels I use to drive this buggy 80Km fat to go Drag race ((0% Of time Quickest of the day ) and drove the buggy back home
Type 4 power is unreal Armant (IMPI) and my self were the only "FOOLS" playing with Type 4 2L motors back in early 90s but we got them to Hall Arse
So Dont be fooled by Porsche
Check this thread 1835 motor with Porsche Fan shoud mod to look Factory built http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopi ... hilit=1835

Glad to see you got some Green Panels for your build

If you need some advice or Help you can give me a buz even though you in Slaap stad I will help

Hmmmmm -------- All of you seemed to miss the most important point of this discussion.

- NOTHING ELSE ON EARTH SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD SIX CYLINDER ENGINE AT FULL SONG - good enough reason to fit one !

Especially a Porsche

Once you have spent some time having a carefull peep at the way Porsche engines ane engineered, one will realise that there would have to be a huge amount of money spent on a VW engine to get it anywhere near Porsche standards.

- So if the man has the bucks and the will to do the conversion, wish him well !

Forcecooled.......

I love your reply!!

I think thats why some people (who can afford it) buy a Lambo, Ferrari or Porsche.....because it sounds great. I literally trawl youtube searching for Splits with Porsche engines and the ones that have done it right sound amazing.

Just the ability for me to be able to say I have a Porsche engine and have the pleasure to listen to it every single day makes it worth while.

The fact that I have been searching for one now for ages is another story but I can only be patient!!

Thanks all for the response!!

- NOTHING ELSE ON EARTH SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD SIX CYLINDER ENGINE AT FULL SONG - good enough reason to fit one !.........HEHE LOVE IT!!

Merlin wrote:Thirdly, every personal build thread I've ever read has included the statement that the owner will never sell that particular vehicle; there are a seemingly infinite number of scrapped and/or half-arsed worth-nothing custom cars the world over because things changed and the owner sold the abortion.

Yup! True dat homie.
I am one of those okes that tuned 'i will never sell'.

Never say never