Aircooled VW South Africa

I agree whole heartedly with Eben,every1 (almost) is against the exporting of acvws(& other classics,muscle cars especially) here on the forum,and Ron&Gill,or Ron,or Gill,fact is,you to have been affected by the exporters,every1 on the forum has,so i think that comment is unfounded and uncalled for,F@CK the exporters and those helping them!!!!!! THEY ARE ROBBING THIS COUNTRY of parts and cars! Good luck with the hunt Eben!

I SAY PUBLISH THE NAMES

I'll sue!!

What you gonna do to Sue

I hope I don’t get banned after this post, but I’m assuming that disagreeing with the boss of the forum is not a red card offence…

That notwithstanding, I truly sympathize with all the good folk on the forum who don’t want to see South Africa’s precious VWs exported, it really is sad to see them leave SA.
I also have a hard-on for exporters that buy here and sell there, because the VW enthusiast over there doesn’t benefit, only the exporter.

I applaud Vincent the 4th SP2 owner from PE’s buddies for matching exporter prices in order to keep our ACVWs in South Africa. That should be made public on the forum, but I have seen nothing yet… And, I wonder, what they reckon is an “export price” for Gill’s ’56 Splitty for example? I paid R55k for it… read on… And what happens to the bus after they buy it? Have they got a warehouse or something, or are they then going to sell it on to a South African enthusiast, provided he swears on a stack of bibles not to sell the car to an exporter… at South African prices? That’s quite a hit they’re taking for the community, pal. Canonize them…

Also I applaud Eben’s efforts at routing out exporters et al that are breaking the rules of the forum. This is a good thing. The rules of the forum should be applied, across the board. At no time whatsoever did I think there was personal gain in it for Eben, only extra work.

Maar, roels is roels, ou pel.

So I went and re-read the rules… I guess we will not be seeing any seatcovers, or references thereto, remarks about the “new” South Africa, or South Africans - new and old, and inappropriate jokes e.g. about pedophiles, etc anymore. On the other hand, I sincerely hope we do, because the forum would become a rather boring place if folks were not allowed to express themselves about things other than just ACVWs. Don’t you agree? OK, so the rules don’t need to be applied so rigorously that we cannot express ourselves anymore, right?

Right, now I am launching into my rant. Disclaimer: This rant is NOT aimed at anyone in particular, and certainly not at Eben, or his efforts, it is aimed at the nameless (to me anyhow) hypocrites who judge people’s actions while they have no f…king idea what they are talking about.

So for all those people that despise the exporter, I would like to sketch a little scenario, so that you also look at the seller. He, after all, is the one that decides where the car ends up. It’s a bit like giving away puppies…

But before I do that, and to add realism to the hypothetical situation, I would just like to let you in on one that really happened. Gill was offered 30 000GBP for her bus by an Englishman a couple of years back when she was earning 7k a month (they find us even without logging onto the forum, damn). For those that don’t know, that is R450 000.00. Yes, almost half a million Rand. You could probably pay your house off with that. She declined. Why? Because she loves her bus and because she’s not selling. I would like to know how many forum members that are in the same position, would do the same? Maybe more than just a few, but not as many as are bitching about this exporter business.

I have a similar problem with the Notch, which I am selling, hypothetically. Should I accept R16 000.00 from the South African who doesn’t have two cents to rub together to restore the car, but proclaims to be a ACVW enthusiast, and will therefore drive it until it is so knackered it is beyond restoration or should I consider the offer from the limey who’s got 4500GBP cash in his hand, and a support system for restoration, pimping, slamming, narrowing, powering, whatever, second to none? The 4500GBP is not an unrealistic price, check it out: Very good condition, unrestored, 1967 daily driver with MOT. That’s R67 500.00. I would like all those forum members who are so dead set against exporting these cars to justify to me, why I should sell to the South African (and how this is better for the Notch). And then convince me that he would in fact do the same if he was in my shoes.

And I’ll tell him “BULL$HIT!” Get real. Most of you, no, ALL of you, if you owned a sought after VW and wanted to, or had to sell it, would sell to whoever gives you the most money. End. Not all of you would cave in and sell to an exporter if you did not want to sell, I’ll grant you that, but that only.

Am I therefore right in saying that if a forum member wants to sell his high value ACVW because the bank’s about to take his house away and chuck his kids out in the street, or something, the forum is in fact doing him a disservice by preventing exporters, who would pay top money for the car, from viewing his advert?

Or the other way round: should it be that forum members in order to protect their VWs from export, should be allowed to advertise their cars on the forum only? THAT’S IT!!

Those ACVWSA forum members who want to sell their cars should be allowed to advertise on this forum only, not on any other gumtree or whatever, lest an exporter put in an offer he can’t refuse. We should enforce this by banning any forum member who advertises his ride on any site other than this forum, speaks to anyone about selling his ride at any show or gathering, places a “For Sale” sign inside his car, or advertises it in any news paper or magazine. Ha! Let’s see those exporters get around that!!

And for anyone who still whines on about keeping these cars in SA and how bad the guys are for selling to exporters, and how they would never-ever do the same, let me turn the argument around. I’ll pop into the UK in August and pick you out a nice bus, not too nice, but not a shit-box either, say 17 000? And I’ll ship it to SA for you, howzat, hey? And then I’ll even pay the import duty on it. To make the deal more attractive, I’ll give you 10% discount. That comes to R480 600.00 and you, and I (my 10% remember?), will have scored one for the home team, hey?! What an opportunity!! 10% discount too, that’s forty eight thousand and sixty rand you took this sucker for, hey? Yussus!!

Any takers? If not, then please, shut up. (Forum members with hitherto unpaid bills need not apply.)

End of rant, thanks a lot for listening.

BTW: This whole conundrum has caused me to hide my Notch away in a dark garage, it’s not for sale, to anyone, ever. Even Vincent the 4th SP2 owner in PE’s buddies. So there!

Sambabus wrote:I agree whole heartedly with Eben,every1 (almost) is against the exporting of acvws(& other classics,muscle cars especially) here on the forum,and Ron&Gill,or Ron,or Gill,fact is,you to have been affected by the exporters,every1 on the forum has,so i think that comment is unfounded and uncalled for,F@CK the exporters and those helping them!!!!!! THEY ARE ROBBING THIS COUNTRY of parts and cars! Good luck with the hunt Eben!

Pal, you know nothing about me, or Gill or me&Gill. Let's see how clever you will be if someone offers you a quarter or half a mil for your bus. Affected by exporter?? Probably the least of all.

Ok then.

Let's export everything.Sell all our Moris',MG's,Fairlanes,E-Types,Baracudas and VW's.

Stuff the shows,and the get togethers.Hell why even bother with websites to share info and help.

Your point about buying a bus in the UK and selling it here is exactly the point.It is due to a favourable exchange rate that only goes one way,that helps them get busses from here.

Do you think for one moment any busses or cars would sell if the exchange rate was the same?Somehow I doubt that.

Exporters exploit the trade.If someone was selling his car to save his house or family,I would say cool.But in most cases guys are selling their cars to exporters that rip them off in the first place,then make a huge profit off the car.

If someone on this site is giving info to exporters,then he SHOULD NOT be here.Period.

I'm truly sick of these Pommes and their double standards.On all their websites they are also bitching and moaning about loosing their cars to the States and Oz.But in the same post they will brag about how cheap they got a bus from SA.

I'm saying it's not the exporters fault, it's the sellers. If the seller gets ripped of by the exporter, it's his own stupid fault. I'm saying that unless you can say that you won't sell your VW to someone offering a barrow full of money, then shut up. I'm saying there is hardly a forum member that won't. Enough already. Get real, money talks, bull$hit walks. That's the way of the world. Good luck to those who resist the advances of exporter, noteably Ron&Gill in this case, who then come under attack from Sambabus, f@ck-me!! And good luck in convincing the sellers to sell at 1/4 of the price to keep them here.

The exporters will find you whereever you are, in particular at car shows. You think these guys are stupid? They make their living this way. It's the SELLERS.

First of all, all owners of classic ACVWs should appraise themselves of the true (exchange rate included) value of their cars, so that if they are approached by an exporter, they can tell him to bugger off. Remember, the owner/seller determines the price, not the buyer.

Ron,that is the only weapon they have.

You cannot honestly tell me that a bus is worth R450 000.

It pisses me off that this exchange rate is benefiting them.To them their 30k GBP is worth as much to them as R30k is worth to you and me.

The other thing that gets me is that I have to travel a 1000 km's just to see a good specimen of a Samba.Or the closest I'll ever get to a Hebmuler is the model I have.

What about the young ones that wants to own a classic one day like Shane(1972).Or my son for that matter.The exporting and the lack of cars does have an affect on availabillty of parts.If no-one wants parts,no-one will supply it,and kids like Shane have to pay mad prices for parts that has to be imported.

Nothing against you Ron,but the argument goes both ways.On this site we would like to see exporting banned and cars stopped from leaving the country.In real life you won't stop it until exchange rates gets more favourable.

Hi Ron

Big Up for not selling your cars.

I dislike the exporting of vehicles from SA but agree with alot you have said.

People often get forced to sell their much loved treasures because of circumstance. Often they have overcapitalised by South African standards. Should they settle and take a loss? Don't think anyone would want to do that.

I was gunned down for suggesting getting an export permit which is available for forum members so that they could sell their own vehicles overseas. At least then they can choose the overseas Buyer themselves. They can make the cash to get themselves out of the financial Dwang and probably start a new project. So one vehicle is lost but another that may have stood and rusted away could be saved. Its a win win situation. This would also shrink the exporters buying market as they usually buy the car from someone on this site and resell it at a huge profit. There would also be less Vehicles rusting on scrap heaps.

I have a beetle that I have spent close on R70000 building up. I must be honest, If Shit hits the fan and I have to sell, there would be few South Africans willing to cough up the Dough. What options would I be left with?

I'd rather the SA owner forced to sell benifit from the overseas market and choose a new owner he knows will cherish the vehicle.

At the moment. People that have to sell will do so and the vehicle often ends up in the UK via exporters. This we've seen o often. The Exporter smiles broadly. The owner overseas might not do the vehicle justice. The original owner doesnt have any spare change to start a new project. SA looses allround.

But thats just my 2c worth.

Now we are talking. Thanks guys. The real issues are coming out in YOUR posts. I also hate seeing our cars leave the country, but the reality of the situation is out there. What's the answer? I don't know, but I suggested that owners check out the value of their cars by international standards. (I don't have much sympathy for a Brit moaning about their classic going to the states, they have been importing them from the states for years by the ship load!)

I guess in SA, it is up to the owners themselves, don't sell if you can help it, if you can't then try to sell locally, make sure your baby goes to someone who is going to care for it, not just flog it on to make money, iaw, sell to a known enthusiast, like I said, it's like selling puppies.

My point is that blaming the exporter, banning the exporter and posting hate-mail about the exporter is utterly futile. We must appeal to the owner/seller's conscience. And "appealling to" does not mean "prescribe to", especially by people who are not in the position to do so.

That does NOT mean that I do not support the hard work Eben is doing to search for and take action against those that break the rules on the forum. And that happens to be roving exporters, and some dude named Brian... along with all the rest of us.

As far as the future generations are concerned, maybe in 15 years time, I will remember in my doddering old age, what this one key was for again? Oh yes, I have a car stored in a garage... a 67 Notch... price? Who knows. I already despair when I think of how the young generation is ever going to afford a house, let alone a ACVW project. But then, my dad worried about the same thing.

(I kid you not about the 30 000GBP, whether he was going to actually get serious about it is another story. But have a look in Volksworld magazine and check out those prices. Ian McCutcheon himself wrote an article in his magazine about how stupid prices had become in the UK.)

Gazza, I know what you mean, Razor cost me R150k, (excluding 100k fire damage) where's the SA enthusiast that's going to give me my money's worth? Even Rumours, I'm well over 50k there. The truth is, like with houses, one easily overcapitalises on ACVW (by fiiling the petrol tank, but let's not go there...), but, it is what YOU want, not what the market wants. I did not restore Razor to re-sell it. I did it to show Razor.

Wow a lot of words exchanged but as for the purpose of this thread the topic was missed slightly: This thread was about a person in the "South Africans" group who passed info about someone else's ad in the offered section, straight to an importer in the UK. Now slap me and call me Dorris: This is not a "grey area". I think its abundantly clear what the rules for the forum is on this subject. As a matter of fact, by being added in the South Africans group, it proves that you read the rules pertaining too it. This is not about members selling their own rides or parts directly overseas, its about local spotters operating out of the offered section on this forum for importers in the UK or exporters in SA.

There has been forum members on here that has sold directly overseas but it backfired when the foreigners went on free for all and started bidding off the forum in PM's against locals and asked to keep it quiet.... There has also been forum members who have been selling very rare parts on other sites without even mentioning it on this forum, which they have every right to do of course although I think it a bit f#Ck#ed up.

Like I said its not a grey area..... it is "internationally known" and for good reason, no-one should be able to claim ignorance.

The reason we have to have these get togethers and that we have this amazing camaraderie is because of the cars that we can afford to buy and maintain. The closest thing I've seen to this camaraderie in the UK is forum members coming up for each other when they are busy slagging someone off who has different views than them.

I'm proud to be associated with the kind of members on this forum that contribute to our "community". The person who is the subject of this thread however is a ghezonkie-nut arranged around the ass-hole of a hobo. May bad things happen too you. I suppose you can see I take it personally.

Yes, I can see that... And I understand why also, I think, tell me if I'm wrong. It has more to do with the fact that the forum is being abused, mis-used and violated, by people with sinister purposes not aligned with the intended purpose of the forum. And the forum is your baby, and thus it becomes personal. Hence my support of your trouble in finding these characters.

My objection is to the air-heads (not a flattering description in this case) that jump on the band wagon deride people for exercising the freedom to do as they see fit with their own cars. Some guy that drives some f%$#-up tight-formation-of-loose-parts that resembles a ACVW only because it has air cooling, probably because of a burst radiator hose, and some d00s painted a swastika on the door, and because of this he feels he's got the right to tell me who I can sell my car to. I sommer launch into another rant... no, I spare you... I'm in a good mood.

And who says guys ain't in touch with their emotional side!!!!