A bus named Grace

[sean]

Thanks TonyZ

So then how would a mechanical advance be a good option? I guess if I had carbs that don't have a place for the vacuum to attach to i.e. Duel 40s then I would have no choice but to go with a mechanical advance. or could you just connect the vacuum tube to the manifold...

Stew looks as though autocorrect caught you out again!
Haha beware of the English teachers on here they will be after you shortly.

Bwaa waa waa velvet... And It doesn't help that I am dyslexic.

You need to look for the original Bosch electronic ignition unit for the 2000L type4 motor. It makes use of vacuum advance and retard system and will work 100% on your existing carbs. It will also work fine with duel Weber's but only with the vacuum advance. These units aren’t freely available but they do come up. If you can find one under R1000 you got yourself a bargain. I have managed to find 2 for under that price. Its money well spent.

There is no need to rush for the twin Weber’s if your original carbs are still in a reasonable condition. Although they are nice, I don’t find a huge difference in power, rather more in the way the power is delivered. This is on a standard 2000 though.

[Dawie]

HERE IS YOUR PROBLEM:


The 34 PDSIT carbs from the 1800- 2L engines are incompatible with anything but the standard VW aircleaner setup with it's long intake ducting. I did experiment extensively with those while monitoring results of air/fuel mixture and cylinder head temperature. The 74- 82 versions of the 34 PDSIT carbs have a special pressed in emulsion tube that causes leaning out of the mixture at high airflow rates. That was done to cancel out the richening effect of pulsing airflow caused by the long thin intake pipes of standard system at high engine loads and speeds. Type 3 engines with offset aircleaners even had different jetting between left and right carbs to compensate for effect of pulsing in different length pipes. By the way PDSIT's from 1700 had different emulsion tube with different characteristics

When driving at high altitude with standard jetting, difference is not as bad. But at low altitude/high atmospheric pressure, mixture will lean to the point where cht and egt is high... causing pistons to over-expand and collapsed skirts happened.

If you really have to keep those aircleaners, then re-jet on a dyno. For a start, air correction jets will have to come way down. Mains increased slightly, and take it from there. It will be thirsty at light loads.

For lowest fuel consumption and best results, fit the standard aircleaner setup complete with the standard setup that directs hot air at light loads and temperatures below 30 degs. With standard jetting, an immediate increase in power will be felt as well compared to the cone filters. Been there, done that. And double checked and tripple checked, as i could not believe the difference myself.

Ignition system... as Sean said.

[stew 89]

Thanks Sean

Where would one look for such bosch units? are they available as new or do I have to go junk yard diving to find some? Do they have a specific part number? As for the Weber's. You wouldn't be willing to part with a set would you?

Oh and when are you and Tanya coming to KZN? for a little RnR?

[stew 89]

When driving at high altitude with standard jetting, difference is not as bad. But at low altitude/high atmospheric pressure, mixture will lean to the point where cht and egt is high... causing pistons to over-expand and collapsed skirts happened.

This explains why she ran so well in the High velt on the way to KKK.

Trouble is I don't have the standard air intake, I never did the bus came from the PO with a cyclone type filter. I have been keeping my eyes open for one but with no luck. Perhaps I should bite the bullet and fork out for some Weber's they seem to be less troublesome. Also there are more guys with dynes that can work on them (here in Durbs anyway).

Thanks for the insight guys, many times over.

[stew 89]

Dawie. If I replace the cyclone system that i had on originally. do you think this would help in the interim? It is about a meter and a half of 50mm steel pipe. about 50cm from filter to the "T" junction and then about another 30cm to each carb...

I know its not the real deal but it should help right?

[Dawie]

That should be fine if T junction is in the middle and pipes from carbs to T about equal length/ + - 23 to 30 cm each.

[stew 89]

the "T" is in the center. Cool Ill pop that back on Thank you again for your help...

[sean]

Thanks Sean

Where would one look for such bosch units? are they available as new or do I have to go junk yard diving to find some? Do they have a specific part number? As for the Weber's. You wouldn't be willing to part with a set would you?

Oh and when are you and Tanya coming to KZN? for a little RnR?

In my case, I spotted a complete motor for sale on Gumtree, contacted the owner and asked if he would sell the distributor, which he did. My other one I picked up was from Andreno motors in Villierdorp, I think it was the last 2000l one he had at the time.

Eish, definitely not parting with my Weber's.

Regarding a road trip, hell yea, we want to travel the East coast and Mozambique some time, hopefully soon.

[stew 89]

Ha ha ha I just thought I would Ask

We would love to join you for a portion of the trip Provided that grace plays ball

Thanks for all your help man

Stew

[stew 89]

So it would seem that there is a local guy that has stock of the electronic Distributer and the module need for it for the low low price of R1900.
Does this seem steep or is it about right?

[Dawie]

Found a used electronic distributor on Gumtree for R250. In excellent condition, no noticeable play on the shaft. Connectors for distributor and module i found at a vw scrapyard for a few rand. New modules are available cheaply, as they also work on golfs etc. A used old German Bosch electronic oil filled coil is in my opinion much better than a brand new similar type pirate part. Was disappointed in a brand new Huco electronic coil i bought from Midas. The Huco had 10 k ohm secondary resistance, (thin cheap wire) and the old Bosch with 3k ohm secondary performed better.

[sean]

So it would seem that there is a local guy that has stock of the electronic Distributer and the module need for it for the low low price of R1900.
Does this seem steep or is it about right?

Does this include the coil? It is vital you have the correct matching coil for this system. The original one was always a gold colour. You will also need the correct rotor with the lower resistance. These are available.

Double check it is the 2000L unit, it’s easily identifiable by the very large vacuum advance & retard canister attached. I can get a part number this evening for you to check.

The unit from the 1900 water-cooled will work (which is far more freely available) but it’s incorrect advance curve will not do your motor any good. Make sure the one for sale is not one of these.

Price seems a little steep, but depends on how much you want it…..

[stew 89]

Cool thanks Dawie

[stew 89]

Hay Sean. This is including every thing. Cap, Rotor, wiring, Module and the coil.

Im concerned that what I have now is not doing me any favors. I have no idea what dizzy is currently on my car. It really is a hoggpogg of parts.

The part number i found is 0231168005

I just phoned the guy He is selling recondition dizzys he can't give me a part number, but the base dizzy he works of is of the 1900 WC motor he reckons he changes the weights and tightens the springs. The reason he says is for the new fuel, to stop the valves from burning.

[Dawie]

2L CJ aircooled's points distributor's centrifugal advance is specified as 21- 25 degrees advance at 3400 rpm's. Add 7.5 deg static/ idle speed timing to that for total advance. Vacuum advance 8-12 degs at 200mm Hg.

2L CU engine, (box-shape 80-82), originally also had an electronic idle speed stabilizer which controlled ign timing at idle speed. This was in line with the module, and was often removed. Centrifugal advance for CU's electronic distributor is specified same as CJ points distributor.

Wasserboxer 1900 spec- 26 to 30 deg centrifugal advance, also at 3400 rpm's. Add 5 deg static/ idle speed timing. (Wasserboxer is set at 5 degs initial, not 7.5 as CJ-aircooled). Vacuum adv for 1900 is 12-16 degs at around 230mm Hg.

So the wbx distributor has 5 deg more centrifugal advance. This can be reduced by correctly modifying the advance mechanism. Simply tightening the springs by bending their mountings will result in advance starting later, and having less advance at 3400 rpm's than the 1900, but: it will continue to advance past 3400 rpm's, unless the advance stop is also modified. Same with lightening the advance weights.

These distributors can be modified to have whatever advance you desire. I have done it myself, but whatever you do, important is to use plain common sense and use strobe to confirm results.

Most important is that total advance (vacuum line always disconnected for this test), never exceeds the needs of the engine. Otherwise knocking/ pinging may happen at heavy loads/ high cylinder head temperatures, and this will destroy the engine.

With vacuum line connected, total advance may be more than 40 degs at no load. This is correct, but timing is never set with vac advance connected. As soon as a load is applied, manifold vacuum will reduce and vac advance will decrease.

1900 Vacuum canister's extra advance is not an issue, as this occurs only at very light loads. The 411/412LE had same max vacuum advance as wbx, but this was all in even earlier at 100-130mm Hg. In fact, for the past 25 years i successfully used a different vacuum canister on my experimental beetle engine to lower it's fuel consumption. This canister has 15 degs at 180-195mm Hg.

Important to note that too late timing is also a bad thing, as this will cause high cht's and heavy fuel consumption.