Notchback brake upgrade

[Blitzkrieg]

Those disc brake stub axles are very easy to find overseas i.e the UK or US as they were fitted to all Type 3s starting with the '66 model year, so if you can't find a set locally, it would be pretty simple to import two good used ones.And a lot of late model cars are broken for spares overseas, so there would be no shortage of those particular bits.

I think that I do have a pair of spare rear 4x130 hubs somewhere if anyone would be interested...

[retrovan]

I'm so stoked....

Yesterday I received the last of the new parts I've ordered........

The discs and drums were made in Brazil and......
The calipers were made in China and ........

The steering knuckles, .......


.......I'm thinking of having them cadmium plated. Anyone done this before?

Looks good, cannot wait to get the parts list, as I am now totally "through each other"
You said a few posts back that the doner cars where "1x 411L Sedan & 1x 412LE Sedan Auto."
Has the 411 / 412 not have the disk and callipers that you need, and do they not fit onto the modified type 3 "stub axle" steering knuckles???????????? if so why buy more parts.???


Rusty bolts;- Go to your local plating shop and have then barrel nickelled or Zinc plated, cadmium is very toxic
Herman

[retrovan]

Blitz,
You should know? which Beetle were the 1st to have Disk's up front, and would it not be easer to transplant that front beam into the type 3. ????????
Then the back drums will also fit.?????
Herman

[Blitzkrieg]

Blitz,
You should know? which Beetle were the 1st to have Disk's up front, and would it not be easer to transplant that front beam into the type 3. ????????
Then the back drums will also fit.?????
Herman

Why would you wanna do that when the disc conversion is so much easier?

[Variant]

You said a few posts back that the doner cars where "1x 411L Sedan & 1x 412LE Sedan Auto."
Has the 411 / 412 not have the disk and callipers that you need, and do they not fit onto the modified type 3 "stub axle" steering knuckles???????????? if so why buy more parts.???

The limits of using T4 brake hardware on the T3 has been discussed a while back:

http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopi ... =4&t=20326

No modification needed to the steering knuckles - simply the correct type needed as - one type for drum brakes, the other for disc brakes
Late model T3's, 411's and 412's up to '73 share the same 4x130 wheel rim - much to the mr. VDB's disgust I had to strip the wheels off 2 of his wrecks to get 5 useable rims!!!

[retrovan]

Why would you want to do that when the disc conversion is so much easier?

Blitz, the question is not as stupid as it might seem.
Once you take the trouble to change the beam completely, which you pick up cheap, parts and upkeep is easy, the car is safer with new beam, and the ride is better.
By changing the parts, you need donor cars, buy in or import expensive parts, and now you have something that you battle the rest of you life getting parts for.......
What I am saying is, in the LONG RUN, will it be better to change the beam, or faff with old parts, that is what I am trying to establish.

[Blitzkrieg]

Why would you want to do that when the disc conversion is so much easier?

Blitz, the question is not as stupid as it might seem.
Once you take the trouble to change the beam completely, which you pick up cheap, parts and upkeep is easy, the car is safer with new beam, and the ride is better.
By changing the parts, you need donor cars, buy in or import expensive parts, and now you have something that you battle the rest of you life getting parts for.......
What I am saying is, in the LONG RUN, will it be better to change the beam, or faff with old parts, that is what I am trying to establish.

Type 3 front beams don't require a lot of maintenance to keep them happy.

You can buy brackets from overseas that enables you to fit a Type 1 beam into a Type 3 car. Usually guys do this when they want to run crazy stance or narrowed beams. Then they end up with a hacked Type 3

If you look at the design of the Type 3 beam, it's really a very clever piece of engineering. The Type 3 beam is rubber mounted onto the frame horns, with additional rubber mounts onto the body. The Type 1s don't have that. And when you change to a Type 1 beam, you do not get a better ride. A guy who I correspond with in the UK has a Notch on a Type 1 beam and reckons that the car is much harsher and twitches a lot; in hindsight he would have rather kept the stock Type 3 beam for a smooth ride and would have sacrificed the loooow look for a nice Type 3 beamed ride

Furthermore, the Type 3 beam already had balljoints that last a long time if you buy good quality ones. And if you like the lowered look, it's easy enough to adjust the ride height by adjusting the torsion bars. With a Type 1 beam, you would have to weld in adjusters etc etc etc.

Honestly speaking, buy NOS balljoints or good quality German replacements, make sure the needle bearings in the beam are okay, make sure that there is enough grease in the beam and that all the rubber mounts etc are in good nick, and you will have a front end that will last another 40 years. WRT to the disc conversion, once you have the spindles (I've seen them going for $50-00 on The Samba if you can't find them locally), buy the discs and calipers from the EMPI catalogue and there you have it - off the shelf parts that will fit and work. And those discs can be redrilled for a wide variety of PCDs if you prefer non-standard wheels....

Please note that I am no expert, these are just a few observations after fixing up my own Type 3s...

[Variant]

The car cannot possibly be safer with a T1 axle butchered into it!!!!!!! Blitz provided a very accurate summary in favour of keeping the T3 axle.

Bear in mind also that this conversion is about doing a standard brake upgrade to an otherwise perfectly standard car - I'm simply following what VAG did to improve the car over some years and VWSA chose not to do. So in the 'LONG RUN' I'll end up with a much safer and reliable brake system that has proven to be easy on parts and maintenance. So what if I have to find and make a few donor parts serviceable or import what I can't. I've been doing it for 22 years and I have never battled to find anything - I actually enjoy the hunt. If the fact that some legwork is required to keep a T3 going properly seems too daunting you should rather find something else... like a Ford...

[retrovan]

: If the fact that some legwork is required to keep a T3 going properly seems too daunting you should rather find something else... like a Ford...

Now was that now so hard to say, .....
Looking at my project, .....no its not a FORD, .... and no, not to daunting, . .. just wanted to know, like most fokes, ... ...I am sure we now have a hole forum of enlightened restorers,.. ... Thank you Gentlemen... ..now may we continue with the lesson....

[Variant]

: If the fact that some legwork is required to keep a T3 going properly seems too daunting you should rather find something else... like a Ford...

Now was that now so hard to say, .....
Looking at my project, .....no its not a FORD, .... and no, not to daunting, . .. just wanted to know, like most fokes, ... ...I am sure we now have a hole forum of enlightened restorers,.. ... Thank you Gentlemen... ..now may we continue with the lesson....

It's cool Retro... we still love you and your For... agskies Fastback

[retrovan]

Hey what's live without a bit of fun, stay cool guys,

When we getting your list, can not wait !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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PS, ...any one want to buy a FORD.............any one...????

[Variant]

Not much progress here at the moment - work interfering with my hobby... Having said that, I did manage to collect the steering knuckles, splash shields, rear wheel hubs & master cylinder cover plate from sandblasting today. Will post some pics as soon as I've painted them. Just waiting for the wheel rims to come back and then we're on to assembly and installation. Since there is such a mix of OE and aftermarket parts involved here I'll be doing a trial assembly of all the parts to check for possible interference issues. Pics of that to follow also.

I'm having an issue with uploading the list of parts as it is on an Excel spreadsheet and it won't attach to this post. I've PM'ed Eben for assistance but haven't heard from him yet. In the meantime, PM me your email address if you would like a copy.

[syncromad]

Hi Guys

i fitted the complete front beam from the Varaint pick up, also 4x 130 into the white/ cream fasty, also just swopped the rear drums, works great. and then the porsche 2.0 wheels looks great and work really well.

Stuart

[retrovan]

Hi Guys

i fitted the complete front beam from the Varaint pick up, also 4x 130 into the white/ cream fasty, also just swopped the rear drums, works great. and then the porsche 2.0 wheels looks great and work really well.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,
Please let us know how the car drives at high speed, and has the feel of the drive improved.
Please also send us photos of this Fasty. If you want to you can email them to me and I will up load them.
Thank you
Herman

[Variant]

Hi Guys

i fitted the complete front beam from the Varaint pick up, also 4x 130 into the white/ cream fasty, also just swopped the rear drums, works great. and then the porsche 2.0 wheels looks great and work really well.

Stuart

That is a good option if your current front axle is suspect and if you can find a decent donor axle. The problem is that there is no way of telling by just looking at the axle whether the torsion arm needle bearings are still OK. Most of them have by now suffered greatly from lack of lubrication - they need to be greased every 6000 miles - and you may hear some metallic rumbling noises from particularly the right front wheel when going over rough patches. If the bearings or torsion arms wear to the point that you can detect any lateral movement the axle its is a lost cause since those bearings are unobtainable - worldwide. This is just about the only time I would reccommend changing the entire axle. Also if the donor axle is from a Squareback and its going into a Fast/Notchback (or vice versa) you should swop out the upper stabilizer bar - in other words keep the original stablizer in your particular car as they have different dampening characteristics.