2L golf motor in microbus

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CHRISTOW
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Re: 2L golf motor in microbus

Post by CHRISTOW »

Hi Retro Van
I am going to go and bleed the system again now. Thanx for the info.
You mention A FIAT fan switch. What model should I look at? The current one is rated at 95 degrees. But the warm water did not even reach the switch yet.
The Thermo is rated at 89 degrees. Should that also changes to what model or will the 4 mm hole sort it out?


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Re: 2L golf motor in microbus

Post by Tony Z »

I would hesitate to guess that you should start seeing the thermostat open around 60degC and be fully open at the 90deg mark. Leaks are a no go!! other than the obvious issue of leaking water/steam, you need a small pressure buildup in the system. That is why your radiator cap is probably stamped with 1bar on it. The extra pressure increases the temperature at which water boils. So if you have a leak, then the water will be boiling around 95degC inside the engine, and that is not good at all.

If your engine has overheated without the warm water getting to the radiator, then you probably have air in the system and around the pump. You might have killed the pump seals too as they rely on the water for cooling and lubrication. Not to mention your poor exhaust valve seats, if you drove the car without water circulation your seats and valves are probably on their way out as they would have overheated.

There is a fair bit more to cooling than just adding water... so please make sure you have the system running properly.
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Re: 2L golf motor in microbus

Post by Tony Z »

those fan switches... go to a decent auto spares shop and ask them to see what they have in their catalogs. I was looking for a fan switch a while back and the guy I spoke to pulled out a whole catalog of them. Then you just have to pick your thread size and temp range and you are good to go.
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Re: 2L golf motor in microbus

Post by CHRISTOW »

I have not driven yet. Only revved the engine a bit to get the temp up.
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Re: 2L golf motor in microbus

Post by retrovan »

All the advice that Tony has given you is all good.

Electrical thermostats come in all ranges, the European cars tend to run there water cooler then the Germans.

But because you have long pipes and need to have the system airless, the mechanical thermostat should be very low, 50 to 70 Deg.C Max. its just there to save the motor on Icy Days..... :wink:

Me thinks, that the problem is air, not enough bleed valves, ( you can never have too many) All at the high points.

Yes drill a hole into the disk of the Mechanical thermostat, as this will always give you some circulation, but this will prevent air sitting behind the closed thermostat, and as air will not transfer heat, the device will not open in time.

Some will say that the engine will take longer to get to running temp. with this hole, but I will assure you that we talking of 2 minutes tops.

Do not forget the ANTI FREEZE........ :shock:

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Re: 2L golf motor in microbus

Post by CHRISTOW »

Herman, where does the electrical thermostat sit? And what car's mechanical thermostat do I put in. At the parts shop they recon that there is only one for the Golf engine.
Also, how do I create a bleeding valve or where do I buy them?
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Re: 2L golf motor in microbus

Post by Tony Z »

the golf thermostat should be fine on the engine. The electircal thermostat is nothing more than a fan on/off switch for use when the car isnt moving.

You cant seriously be attempting to re-design the engine layout of a car and not know what a bleed valve is?
Any valve, bung or plug at a high point is a bleed valve. Weld in a threaded bung with a ball valve and you have an easy to use bleed valve. Weld a nut onto the pipe, drill into the pipe, then use a short bolt and a copper washer to seal - voila another bleed valve. In short, you need any method of removing air from the system.
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Re: 2L golf motor in microbus

Post by retrovan »

CHRISTOW wrote:Herman, where does the electrical thermostat sit? And what car's mechanical thermostat do I put in. At the parts shop they recon that there is only one for the Golf engine.
Also, how do I create a bleeding valve or where do I buy them?
It would seam that you new to this conversion thing....

Lets take you through it then.

Not an expert by any means but paid extensive "school fees" in the past, but back to your questions.

( where does the electrical thermostat sit? )
This is normally called an fan switch, and sits on the radiator, top, bottom, or side. I do not like them, as when the water leaks, and you do not have a water level warning light, the motor is toast before you know it has run dry.
But as it has to regular the water through the engine, its best placed there.

( what car's mechanical thermostat do I put in )
Well as Tony said, leave the Golf one in, with a hole, do all the other stuff, if you still have :bn: with it, take it out and go to your local parts dealer, and show him the part, and tell him you want a lower temp. one( this is embossed into the thermostat), he will give you one from a different make, but it will fit. Best to ask an OLD TOPPY parts guy, because the young guys will tell you it "can't be done"

When I restored my Morris 10 1946, these cars are known for overheating, I fitted a Ford mechanical thermostat, with a hole, and a Fiat electrical thermostat, Why, because they run colder, and you know what, the car never overheated ever again, even up the steep mountain passes in the Cape.

If you want to fit a bleed valve into a rubber hose, find a section of pipe that fits tight into the rubber pipe, cut a length of approx. 70 to 100 mm long section, weld a nut on it, as Tony said, and drill through the nut to make a hole, then fit a short bolt or screw into it with a sealing washer. Now cut the rubber pipe, and fit this short section you just made, into the cut ends with clamps. When bleeding, just unscrew this bolt/screw you put in, so the air can come out, and then when coolant comes out without air bubbles, you close it again.

Repeat,
And Repeat again,
till you sure all air is out.

Hope this helps....

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Re: 2L golf motor in microbus

Post by CHRISTOW »

Tony Z
LOL...I know what a bleeding valve is......just did not know how to make one from scratch. This is my first attempt at doing this. I am not a mechanic. So all the info on how to do this, have been gained from Google and friendly helpfull guys like you......lol
Hopefully by the time I am finished, I will be able to give some tips and advice to other guys trying this and thereby keep this wonderful cars on the roads for another few generations.
I appreciate all the help and advice I get and would not have been able to get this far without all the help.

I have spent the afternoon starting, idling and bleeding the cooling system. So far it does not go above 100 degrees, but the fan has not switched on yet. I will drill the 4mm hole in the thermostat tomorrow and try and get a fan switch (electrical thermostat) with a lower degree rating. I assume the hole must be in the big disc of the thermostat, not the small disc, as the big disc blocks the flow from the radiator.
I think the filler bottle got damaged withe the heat yesterday as it keeps on boiling out the side valve when I switch the engine off.
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Re: 2L golf motor in microbus

Post by retrovan »

CHRISTOW wrote:T.....
Hopefully by the time I am finished, I will be able to give some tips and advice to other guys trying this and thereby keep this wonderful cars on the roads for another few generations.......
........ I assume the hole must be in the big disc of the thermostat, not the small disc, as the big disc blocks the flow from the radiator.
.........
Thats why us "DIY" guys help each other, to keep the cost down to keep these cars on the road... :D

You assume correct, drill hole in big disk, near centre, but do not hit any thing else.. :shock: Be careful :roll: ...

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Re: 2L golf motor in microbus

Post by CHRISTOW »

Herman, I will let you guys know what happened after doing the above tomorrow.

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Re: 2L golf motor in microbus

Post by flatfourfan »

I reckon that you have some serious air in that system. I fitted a golf 82 degree unit as I believe that the 95 degree is the standard one that most guys use. I ran the car upto operating temps this weekend for the first time and once the fan switched on, the temps stayed pretty constant at about 82 degrees.

I put two bleeding points, one is up front by the honda civic radiator that'll bleed into a second water bottle and the second one is right by the motor where the engine receives it's feed. The key here is to have the bleeding points on the highest spots in the system as the guys have been saying before.

Your engine temps should not be hitting 100 degrees and your fan should be coming on by then.
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Re: 2L golf motor in microbus

Post by CHRISTOW »

I have changed my thermo to an 80 degree unit with a 4 mm hole and the fan switch to a 82 / 68 degree unit. The rubber around the expansion bottle lid was scew, thats why it pushed water out the valve. I bled and bled and bled. Engine still running to 100, fan then kicks in and drops down to 97. I am starting to think that the heat guage or sender unit might be faulty.
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Re: 2L golf motor in microbus

Post by retrovan »

Your system is now working fine, test your temp, gauge, but, me thinks, you are OK now, as long as the car does nor boil, also very dependent on the pressure of the relieve cap, on your header tank.
After all this, you have not said if you are running anti freeze, yes or no ???
run the motor for longer periods, and then bleed again.
when you stop getting air out, you can stop bleeding.

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Re: 2L golf motor in microbus

Post by CHRISTOW »

Herman, no antifreeze yet. First wanted to make sure everything else is fine (not replace more thermo's and fan switches and maybe a water pump. I have a golf water bottle and a VW Caddy Bakkie radiator. The bottle acts as bleeder in the rear and the small return pipe on the radiator acts as the front bleeder. I screwed a bolt into the rubber pipe with a hosepipe clamp further sealing it of. To bleed I undo the clamp, unscrew the bolt and let the air out until the water comes through. Tomorrow I will let some water out and start replacing with anti freeze.
I must get a new petrol cable, so I will test drive only on Wednesday.
I will take the complete heat guage and sender back and get a new one. It is the only way I can think of "testing" the guage.
You guys have helped me a lot!!! Thank you all so very much. Will keep you up to date.
Thanx again
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