Aircooled VW South Africa

I met a gentleman with a respectable Karmann Ghia yesterday. We chatted a bit about his ride. I could tell that he loved his car so much that he even wore a matching 1966 Ghia cap on his head. At one point I asked him who restored the car. Without hesitation he proudly announced " Ek het" . I glanced over at the car and said " So you did the paint job? " His answer came back much softer and sheepishly " Nee, iemand anders het die verf werk gedoen" He immediately took me to show the engine off. I thought surely he must have done the engine himself. Why would he otherwise show it to me. I could not resist and asked " So you rebuild the engine, right?"
"Oh nee. Iemand in Uitenhage het die engine gedoen"
At this point I had a smile on my face and decided not to ask who did the upholstery.

I don't know why so many people think that paying for a restoration, means that they did it. I feel the same about guys proudly writing on ads and forums that they have a 1956 Porsche Speedster. No you don't. The oldest one in SA is a 1957 and yours don't make that funny sound when I tap my finger against it. What you have is a beautiful replica Speedster, done with taste. Be proud of your car and also about who restored it.

Remember: We can see right from wrong and it only makes you look bad when claiming something that is not true.

Wernher

How many people have the skills to accomplish all the specialist tasks involved in restoring and old car?

I consider a cheque-book restoration to be one where the owner hands the car to a restoration shop and leaves them to complete it, paying a fat sum on completion.

While I prefer original condition cars to restorations, I have "restored" a number of buses over the years. I have my engines built by specialist engine builders, transmissions by gearbox specialists, upholstery by specialist upholsterers, and bodywork by specialist panelbeaters and spraypainters. I do any other mechanical repairs and renovation of individual parts, as well as the final assembly, entirely on my own and I don't consider it dishonest to say I restored those cars.

I have built my own engines and tried my hand at upholstery and painting, but I don't have the experience and daily practical application that the specialists do, never mind the time, so I rather farm the more critical areas of the restoration out to the experts, for best results.

Overseeing a restoration and doing final assembly work is a monumental task without doing everything yourself. Since you know that Wernher, I'd have expected you to give the KG enthusiast a bit more credit ...

Well, I can say I "restored" my bus myself.... well, at least as far as the interior, and bodywork and paintjob, and mechanicals are concerned.

Maybe it wasnt done anywhere near the quality of a professional restoration, or great paintjob, but, I did it myself, and did it MY WAY !

Christian

Just like you, I prefer original cars over restored ones.

vw59beetle wrote:Overseeing a restoration and doing final assembly work is a monumental task without doing everything yourself. Since you know that Wernher, I'd have expected you to give the KG enthusiast a bit more credit ...

I can not agree with you more. It is a monumental task to restore a car and it is almost impossible to do every part of it yourself, although i know that it can be done.
I am just a beginner in this game and have a lot to learn and I don't think I will ever do every aspect of a restoration myself. I am however learning as much as I can from the experts while they are still around. In my opinion there are very few people around that knows how to properly restore the body of a car. They need to take short cuts to be able to make a living.
I don't think you can say that you restored a car, if you only oversee the restoration and assembled it at the end. I would rather say that I had the car restored, but did the assembly myself. Why not mention all the people involved in the restoration? And if you were there yesterday and part of the conversation, then you would realize that this person did not know half of what he was saying. It's not that I did not give him credit. I can only comment on the knowledge that he shared with me or the lack of it.

Wernher

i'd like to get my hands on the dude that "restored" my bug. did everything himself including motor and paint, but after being parked outside for a while the paint is bubbling and rusting and i cant get the motor to stay running more than a few hundred km at a time. i think its better to do it figs way and get the pros to do the important bits, then put the puzzle together yourself

Exactly Marshall.
There is no shame in having a car restored, especially if it was done right. There will be enough opportunity to work on the car yourself in the years to come. Have it done right by the specialist like Fig said. Be involved in the restoration.Do the research. Enjoy the whole process.

But don't stick out your chest and say I did the restoration. Rather say that I was part of it.

So if the owner of the Ghia , just left the car as he found it would it be considered as "restored" ? -No-
He had the paint,engine,interior ect redone and fixed , is the car then "restored" ? - Yes-
Who initiated all this work and who payed for it ?- Mister "A"
Who then restored the car ? that would then be "Mister A" Not ?
So if I ask mister "A" who resotored the car and he replied " I did" I consider that as the correct answer.
Who did the work is a totally different thing then asking who restored it in my book.

vw59beetle wrote:I don't think you can say that you restored a car, if you only oversee the restoration and assembled it at the end. I would rather say that I had the car restored, but did the assembly myself. Why not mention all the people involved in the restoration?

I think we are in agreement and these are just semantic differences. I would still say I restored the car, which usually leads to a conversation where I might be questioned (as you did the KG guy) about who did what work and I would never claim that I restored every part of the car, but I would still feel justified in saying I restored the car if I oversaw the process and did the assembly myself.

I would fully agree with you if the KG guy tried to claim he had done the engine, paint, upholstery, etc, himself, or if he had done a cheque-book restoration according to my definition above.

Look at it like the CEO of a company; as the main overseer and developer of strategy he gets the credit for the company's achievements, even though he has emplyees who do all the work.

just wondering... if I buy engine parts made by someone else, modify them myself and assemble the engine to my specs, can I claim that I built the engine when I didnt make the parts?

Well my jam sandwich was made by God and it was delicious. I was going to say it was a Sasko Sam, Koo collaborative effort but then I remembered that Crookes bros grew the wheat in the Western Cape and the fruit was probably from some Ceres farm. Now I'll just go with God. You heathen non believers can blame your sarmies on a random explosion of super dense "stuff".

Don't worry Wernher, we know what you were trying to say. The KG guy is like Tony Stark who claims to have built the robot suit when in reality it was actually the robotic arm in his lab and some outsourced engineering shop that really did it. Don't say he built the robotic arm either. He probably just drew up the schematics and Geeves would have worked out the bugs.

Ah well who cares, I want to see pictures of the KG or it never happened!

Sometimes all the 'pro's' will get you is a mediocre job and a lot of money out of pocket! I am not a painter by any stretch of the imagination, but paint my own cars for this reason. Even finding suppliers to give good information is hard work!

I think the discussion is moot anyway - people are going to say whatever they want..... all it does is give you an insight into their character when they claim work as their own. All semantics, but I do get a chuckle listening to people talking about a car they built though - to me that means you started with a pile of steel, not a car that a factory made

I must also say that I am now very careful about the type of work/customer I take on. My reputation is important - I have had a couple of projects I worked on finished in a way or style that I would be embarrassed to be associated with the car This goes for individuals and for 'pro' shops alike.

I think building a car is a project. The person who is the restorer is the owner who takes on the project. The one who plans it, designs it, gets the materials, finds the expert manpower, brings it all together and drives it to completion, and pays the bills. It is his baby. He puts in the emotion, makes the decisions and takes the risks. Every other contributor big or small, is a sub-contractor, an engine builder, upholsterer, painter, metal worker. But that's just my opinion.

Ron&Gill wrote:I think building a car is a project. The person who is the restorer is the owner who takes on the project. The one who plans it, designs it, gets the materials, finds the expert manpower, brings it all together and drives it to completion, and pays the bills. It is his baby. He puts in the emotion, makes the decisions and takes the risks. Every other contributor big or small, is a sub-contractor, an engine builder, upholsterer, painter, metal worker. But that's just my opinion.

Echo...

Why is this important? Who gives a shit who "restored" their car and who didnt.....seems like a petty glory seeking endevour to make yourself feel better.

just my humble opinion

Barry wrote:Sometimes all the 'pro's' will get you is a mediocre job and a lot of money out of pocket! I am not a painter by any stretch of the imagination, but paint my own cars for this reason. Even finding suppliers to give good information is hard work!

I think the discussion is moot anyway - people are going to say whatever they want..... all it does is give you an insight into their character when they claim work as their own. All semantics, but I do get a chuckle listening to people talking about a car they built though - to me that means you started with a pile of steel, not a car that a factory made

I must also say that I am now very careful about the type of work/customer I take on. My reputation is important - I have had a couple of projects I worked on finished in a way or style that I would be embarrassed to be associated with the car This goes for individuals and for 'pro' shops alike.

What if you have obtained a beaten up body, chassis and sills rusted to hell and gone, no glass, no interior no wiring and considering it on its way to a scrap yard. Would that be considered a pile of steel?
Is Orchastrating the build (partly yourself, as noone can ever do every yourself) so that the car is a fully decent legal running machine, considered your restoration?