Lathe advice pls

[Tony Z]

Hey Guys

Taking a long shot here, hopefully someone can help me out.

I am in the market for a 3ph lathe, approx 300mm swing over the bed.
Over the last 2 years I have done a little scouting around, but nothing serious.
I am now starting to get to the serious stage.

Being in CPT, we dont have much of a second hand machine tool market and what you do find is usually well used. I dont want something that I need to repair or have the bed reground, so I'll be looking for a new machine.

Currently the two machines which stand out for me are:
Toolquip & Allied - MBL1000AX360/380 TURNMASTER CO636B X 1000X360 380/3/50
CoastalEngineering - STANDARD CO632A/1000mm

Does anyone have experience with either of these two machines?
How are they to use, are they accurate and can they take decent cuts?

The Toolquip machine is the one I am more keen on at the moment, but thats without meeting anyone who has used either machine.

[Terry Phillips]

Tony I have quite a few mates that have been in the tool and die making and fitter and turners for many years and are very knowlegable. if you need any advices I am sure they will be more than willing to help if they can.
Only thing is they are all here in Edenvale Jhb.

[Stütz]

If you're interested to hook up with them when you get back, I know a large German family owned and run engineering business here in CPT. I will make the introduction and you can pick their brains all you like.

[Tony Z]

Thanks guys

My biggest fear is that I fork out the money for a machine only to find it to be a cheaply made POS.
The machines look good, but I dont trust sales people and their claims, which is why I would like to speak to people who have these machines already.
These machines are on the borderline between small industrial and large. The next machine up is about double the price and more than double the weight for not much more machine. OK, it will also jump from 2kW to 5kW.

I have learned my lesson with Ardendorff and similar machines and while they serve their purpose, I dont want to curse at the machines anymore.

[Barry]

Hey Tony - I'm not much of a machinist but FWIW I've worked on a friend's Standard and found it to be pretty good. He is a very accomplished fitter and turner (made some of my e-wheel anvils manually when the CNC guys couldn't get them right) and it is his go to machine for small, accurate stuff (there are three other lathes in the shop)
Another friend also has one with DRO and absolutely loves it - definitely get the readout if you can afford it...

[sean]

Look at the country of origin. If it is Chinese, walk away quickly.

It will be better value for money to buy a 30 year old Italian or British machine than a new Chinese.

The Chinese looks tempting on the price and looking at it on display, but as usual they don't work properly and don't last.

Have you taken a look at what Marriott Machinery in Epping has second hand?

[Tony Z]

I cant remember which is which, but one is Korean and the other is Taiwanese.

I have been to Marriott and the machines he had scared me to be honest. He had a milling machine that I might have been keen on, but his lathes had bits missing and looked VERY well worn to the point he said the beds on two of his machines need to be reground.
I'll be going back again

[Terry Phillips]

These days its hard to tell where things are made,I just purchased a new Suzuki car and I said to the salesman I want a Suzuki as its made in Japan not China,I just recently saw a tag on the bottom of the door post and it said Made In India but the salesmen never said a word about that,not that made in India is bad thing but its not made in Japan as I was led to believe.
I bought a Oz tent a few yrs back Made In China
So you have to do your homework these days.

[Tony Z]

I wrote to Coastal for more info on their Standard lathe.
The brochure I was sent has China written all over it. So I guess that rules out that one...
Who wants to bet that the Toolquip machine is made by the same company? I'll have to do some more digging...

[64 Notchback]

What about auctions

[JamesD]

http://www.toolshop.co.za/products/opti ... 9#products

I rather like the little one from toolshop.

Tip I heard was to take a cylinder machined on a good lathe and use that to check the run out of new ones in the shop

[hitlers revenge]

When you back in Cape Town? Maybe my dad can help. He has years of experience.

I hope he doesn't sell you his one as Ryan and I want to take it over one day.

From whats been said above, I agree. Look for an old British one.

[retrovan]

Well I do not agree with the sentiment that old is better then new.

I have used a few New "Adendorff" type lathes in my time, and I must say that they where all better then the old English and German machines that I had to use when a Appey.

If you going to use it for short runs or as a low volume unit, it will be perfect.

If you buy an old machine, you need to redo the slides, service the lubrication system, refit all the bearings, balance all the shafts, take up all the play, .....what a job.

If you do a half job, you land up with shuddering, run-out, step cuts, depth variations.

Best is to do a trail run at the showroom, and see if it will do what you want.

Also, see if the beds been hardened, normally a sign of good workmanship.

Not easy, good luck

Look here too..... http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-industrial-m ... 0005201009

Herman

[Manny]

Hi Tony,
Having owned my own engineering business a few years back a qualified tool jig and die maker by trade, I have bought a few second hand machines in my time and it is not always the best option, some of the machines might be a good reliable brand but remember most of these machines are 20 years old or older and have done some serious hours also finding replacement parts can be an issue, repair costs could cost you more than the lathe itself . You could find a good reconditioned machine but again it will cost you. Colchester, Toss and Cincinnati are favorites.
NB: Second hand lathe does not always come equipped with all the accessories e.g face plate, 3 jaw chuck , four jaw chuck, drill chuck, centers, carriers and so forth. New lathes already come equipped with some off these goodies. Check what they offer very important.
I have also owned a Chinese BJC lathe, I bought it mainly for roughing work boy oh! boy was I surprised it was extremely accurate and reliable and I had no complaints till the day I sold the business it was my favorite lathe.
So don't be fooled there are some good Chinese lathes out there.
The brands you mentioned I am not really familiar with, although I am familiar with TQA they have been around for years.
My advise is to seriously determine what the lathe will be used for,the type of work (Light /heavy) and frequency of work. If light work and no more than 20 hours a week the lathes you suggested should suffice and last for years. I would recommend adding a DRO ( Digital Read Out) it is worth the spending.
I also believe no matter the brand.... it is how you look after your equipment that will determine the life span, I am still old school so basic rules don't use compressed air on a lathe use a pant brush ( small metal shaving get blown under the slides causing abnormal wear), clean the machine after use, oil the machine after use.

[Tony Z]

Thanks guys

It is good to see that some people advise against second hand machines. My personal opinion is that Cape Town has a smallish industry when compared to JHB, thus machines get used for much longer and end up being more worn that what you would find in JHB. Then one has to wonder why a shop would sell a machine if it is paid off and earning profit?? Maybe it doesnt hold tolerances any more and isnt worth refurbishing.
Which is why I am looking for a new machine. Or at least a machine that has lived at home and used semi-regularly and is well looked after.

Herman, the gumtree add you posted is for the same machine as i am looking at from Toolquip.

I actually arranged a "decent" ardendorrf lathe for work. What a POS. After tightening up all the slides to the point that I am about to feel resistance to travel, I can still see the tools moving out of the way of the part I am machining when trying to take a 1mm cut. Belt driven and having to change gears to get different feed rates is driving me up the wall.
I just want to jump on, take a 2 or 3mm roughing cut and not worry about the damn thing moving out of the way or having to hold the hand wheels to stop the cross slide and top slide from unwinding.

James, I have researched the Optimum range that you posted. Its a German company with their machines made in China. Apparently still a good product. I can get them cheaper than on the site, I am in contact with the import agents in JHB and their CPT office. I am going to check out one of their smaller milling machines.
Its a pity about their 320 lathe, its a bit more than I was hoping to spend.

Demorais01. Thanks for the info on the air, I didnt know that. I use a paint brush simply because its easier to contain the shavings. It'll be used for medium work. Probably a lot of faffinf around with small things but I have a few things lined up in the 200 to 250mm diameter range, hence the size. It will probably stand more often than not but this is a life-long purchase. If it gets to the point that I need to replace it, then I'll be moving enough to have the cashflow. But I dont want to replace it because I cant stand using it. I'll rather up my budget by 30% than stand there wishing I bought something else.
I wasnt planning on a DRO. Are they really that good?
When you refer to TQA, are you talking about Toolquip? What are your thoughts on their products, as this is the other one on my short list...

HR, I'll be back in CPT on 29 April.

As for Auctions... i am keeping an eye out, but there is nothing in CPT area. Once again, it comes down to not knowing what you are getting or how good it is.


Thanks again guys. Its a big investment and I appreciate the help.