Aircooled VW South Africa

Shell Rimula R4X 15W40
nothing else needed

otherwise, if you really want zddp additives, I have a few bottles of Cam-Shield that I can supply.

I take it this is a problem frequently found on type 4 engines ???
Glad it's back on track

Haans

Cam break in- one trick mentioned by an experienced aircooled engine builder...

Just before startup, overfill oil to have camshaft submerged, but not too much. After cam break in, shut down and drain oil to normal upper level. Reason for revving during break in is to create oil splash on cam surfaces.

Herman, are you going to rev that engine for 25-30 minutes in that complex where you stay? Complex life would be like a jail sentence for me.

Dawie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:22 pm
Herman, are you going to rev that engine for 25-30 minutes in that complex where you stay? Complex life would be like a jail sentence for me.

I once did a cam break in while living in a block of flats in Sea Point... I wasnt popular. It is amazing how quickly people complain
*standing in parking lot with earmuffs on and engine blaring - one old tanny shouting at me and me telling her I cant hear her*

But I have a cunning plan ..............

Will wait till the lawn services are busy cutting the lawns around me and then do the run-in..........

Herman

So the "Old Toppie" still has it in him, yes we single handedly re-fitted the type 4 back into the Bay

Lots of kicking, swearing, Sweating, and grunting, but she went in.

This was after the bell housing was removed, the trust bearing , arms, and shaft removed, and re-fitted into the "new" bell housing.

Installed the "new" bell housing, filled the gear box with nice new oil and 'popped" in the motor.

Connected the cables, pipes and battery, and just as I dived under the bus to fit the vacuum pipe to the brake booster, snap, crackle and pop went my bike accident damaged knee....

the pain was unbelievable.... BUT... head strong as always, was not going to let pain stop me from getting the bus ready to start.

Well that was Friday, and after a few hours had most done, and the pain coming out of my ears, I went inside.

So with a hand full of pain killers, we went down to do the bus, Put in the acquired 3 x strength ZDDP additive pushing the oil ZINC level to above 1400 ppm, and up to API standards for classic engines, running on SL grade oil spec's.

Have fitted the 1.9 wasser box dizzy with electronic Hall Effect pick-up, and started her right up.

After she heated up and started to ideal smoothly, we got her ass out the garage door, and revved her to 2500 rpm.

Due to the high wind speed and most being indoors for the bad weather, I got away with the run-in, without complaints... I think....

She ran smoothly for 25 min, and I took her back down to an ideal for a few minuets.

Happy that she is fine, I put her to bed, and will take her for a run in the morning.

Till then

Herman

Great to hear !!! That she's back on track!!!...........seems that you are off track with that shitty knee!!

Oh well,..part of getting old suppose!,....nothing for a chiro to get you re-aligned again !!OR,....come to think of it,.....Tullimore dew !!!! Normally works for "us" to get " aligned " again.

Best of luck. Haans

Hate doctors with a passion... ...... but love your type of "medicinal vapor"



Herman

You mentioned: "new Oettinger cam fitted and re-assembled."
Any idea about specs, (cam timing and lift)?
Your previous cam, was it the standard VW hydraulic one?

Remember that distributor from the watercooled 1.9 or 2.1 engine have around 5 degrees more total centrifugal advance than the aircooled 2L electronic or points 1300-2L types.
For obvious reasons, best to now set timing only by strobe at max centrifugal advance, (vacuum disconnected for the procedure). Best to open distributor and modify to limit total centrifugal advance.

The zinc content is another can of worms. In your case, (and others who received some of those faulty/ wrong metallurgy replacement lifters), i think zinc content was not main cause of failure.

Yes to old cam was the std cam and the new one is a oem std Oettinger as far as I know.

On set-up I did see the additional 5 Deg. and adjusted the timing accordingly

IE to max at 25 Deg. with vacuum connected at 3000rpm.

Want to open Dizzy as you said, and max the centrifugal advance, also would like to retrofit the old Vacuum can as I see the bigger can adjusts the timing too fast for my liking. Mainly giving me a flat spot from ideal.

Would agree with you on the faulty Lifters, but I would rather be safe with the right zinc level, for now.........

will see what the oil looks like on 1st service in all 4 my aircooled motors.

Maybe you can advise, would the 1.9 dizzy be better with small vacuum can and 5 deg max reduction, or the Citi Golf dizzy as is.??

why dont you move your post from the thread you put it in yesterday and add it to this thread where it belongs???

You are supposed to set the timing with the vacuum hose disconnected, unlike what you said above (typing error maybe?)

Your flat spot just off idle is likely due to jetting or accelerator pump settings. The vacuum can doesnt affect timing at very low throttle positions.
Test this by removing the vacuum hose, plugging it and driving with the vac canister open to atmosphere. That way if you still have a flat spot, you know it isnt due to the vacuum canister.

Golf dizzy is the WRONG dizzy to use. Dont even touch it unless you modify it to have the same advance as the aircooled units.

Remember that too much ZDDP eats/destroys the insides of your engine... After adding your additional ZDDP, the only way to know for sure what you have is to run the engine a little to mix it all up, then take an oil sample and send it off for analysis. You cannot/shouldnt follow the instructions on the side of the bottle as they just tell you to add some of their product to the oil and all will be good. This doesnt take into account the amount of ZDDP in the oil originally and none of those additive bottles tell you how much ZDDP they hold (per 100ml for example).
I've put a lot of time into researching this topic. I now run around 1200ppm zddp in all my engines except Angrrr, in which I am running a low zddp oil down to around 650ppm. There is much more to this topic than just zddp.

Tony Z wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:00 pm why dont you move your post from the thread you put it in yesterday and add it to this thread where it belongs???

.......

OK.... Here you go......

retrovan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:15 pm So hear you asking What you all been doing as it so quit.......

Well the thing is that with MeFusco being welded, ground, filled, sanded, primer ed....... welded, ground, filled, sanded,....... primer ed...... . welded, ground, filled, sanded, primer ed. we had to find something else to do........

With ME being busy with all the office work, not being able to get MYSELF to do anything but utter that every thing has been done by MYSELF, Os its up to I to get on with the work in the workshop.

So what did I do, well after the Bay engine cam failure, I went ahead and did some research and found the oils I have been using as well as most, are running approx. 1200 ppm Zinc.

Now the very cleaver gurues world wide recommend a 1400 ppm zinc for older (classic) cars with hard lifters.

This number has been reduced over the years to comply with the self cleaning ability of the new modern oils and the new types of engines.

So as my API approved oil only had 1200 ppm and I needed 1400 ppm, I went in search of an zinc additive here in SA.

Having found a supply of ZDDP x3 additive, I got me a bottle for each of my aircooleds.

So I drained all the sump's and replaced oil filters, whether it had clean oil or not, and filled it up with new oil and a bottle of ZDDP additive.

Have taken them all for a 5 Km drive, and not sure if its in my head or if they actual sound and drive better.

Now the 3 of us are ALL happy again.

Now we will get the Fastback cleaned for the next JBCCC outing on Saturday

Herman

Tony Z wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:00 pm

You are supposed to set the timing with the vacuum hose disconnected, unlike what you said above (typing error maybe?)

Thats What I did, then connected the vacuum again and re-strobed it again, finding that she went over max advance, so I brought her back as said....

Herman

Tony Z wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:00 pm ........ There is much more to this topic than just zddp.

Thats why I want to fill all my Aircooled engines, and see what the oil condition is after a few Km

Thats the only way I will know whats good, bad, or better for which aircooled.

Should it be overkill, it will go black very , very fast., if correct she will darken with age till the next service.

You hear so much about everything, but when the hits the fan, there are a million different opinions and you no better off.

My "old Toppy" journeyman told me back in the day when foam was not present,

that the only education you can trust is what you have experienced your self.

So let see where this goes.......

Herman

Herman, are you sure you have a 1.9 WBX distributor?

The 1.9 has the same size vacuum canister as a type 1 motor. The big canister with vacuum retard and advance was used on 2.1WBx and 2l CU aircooled motors.

All three have different part numbers due to different advance curves. Since you have an aircooled motor, it would be best to fit the appropriate distributor from a 2l and not from the water cooled variety. Provide the part number.

I don’t believe it is oil that has caused the problem on your camshaft. I have driven many thousands of KM’s on aircooled motors with just using any old multi grade oil and never had cams wear out.

I have however purchased 2 Vw’s with existing motors that had cam shaft lobes completely worn round. It’s hard to believe that these motors had driven to a point where the lobe became completely round. Obviously since having no history on these motors, I can’t say how long it took or what was the cause.

No I am not sure, as I am no expert on anything kombi.

Was told its a 1.9 dizzy, but on line looking at the Samba posts and photo's it looks like the westfalia / late 2l type 4 motor dizzy.

As the motor was out I decided to look into the dizzy options, and to test and trail for my self the different options.

The original dizzy that this motor had on for the last 5000km worked fine, so did the G-tec, and the electronic unit I used on the fleetline after the electronic system konked in on the way to Sani. This one also worked fine, now I am testing this dizzy and still need to set it in for a few trips before working out if I should keep as is or modify it as per above post.

With regard to the oil/ cam issue, Yes I do agree its not the oil that killed the cam, but the lifter, but it got me thinking. yes would my motors not last longer if I found a "Better Oil" Can the classic engine perform better and longer with a oil that is JUST RIGHT for it. the same as the hi tec engines and oil in say the Audi, or Merc.

So how is this Old Toppie going to work out whats best, well I want to see how these mixture performs in my different motors, as they are all different.

Did the hammer test and found that regardless how hard I hit the oil between two metals it still slippery, ( some of the old oil disappeared and left area semi dry) also polishing a brass plate(by finger) with my old oil and the new mixture, I find a difference already, as the old oil polishes the surface bright, but the new mix oil only lubricates it and has no effect on the surface, will see how it does after a few kilos.

Have you got the different part numbers, as I will have a look which I have when I take it out again, or maybe I can read it without taking it out.

This is very interesting and thanks for all the input, Now I have something to play with until the assembly of MeFusco.

With regard to the cam wear, I can say that it happened in about the last 350km that I drove with her.

Had about 5000km on the clock at that time, but think the minute the hardened surface went, the wear went very fast. The two exhaust lifters had the most wear, with #3 exhaust cam lobe being totally round. One lifter on #1 Intake was still perfect, so no, its not the oil as they would have all had the same wear pattern.

Thanks for participating.

Herman