Aircooled VW South Africa

Hi All,

With the price of split window buses seemingly going through the roof, (In SA i have seen them advertised up to R700k!) I have started looking at buses overseas out of interest. Last night I saw a really nice 65 (i think it was) which had been restored going for US$12000 and another (cant remember the year but more or less the same) going for AUS$14000. Both right hand drives.
This got me to thinking, it seems that it is actually (almost) cheaper to import these buses than it is to buy them locally.
Yes i know about all the red tape and hassles but when you consider this one advertised by an "dealer" on Facebook which is going for R50k its actually a no brainer to import rather.

What are your thoughts?

All good points . the money transfer costs /risk/and almost impossible taxes and red tape will put one off im sure .

as far as Pricing its a turning point for SA busses .......

my 2 cents

brucet wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:48 am Hi All,

With the price of split window buses seemingly going through the roof, (In SA i have seen them advertised up to R700k!) I have started looking at buses overseas out of interest. Last night I saw a really nice 65 (i think it was) which had been restored going for US$12000 and another (cant remember the year but more or less the same) going for AUS$14000. Both right hand drives.
This got me to thinking, it seems that it is actually (almost) cheaper to import these buses than it is to buy them locally.
Yes i know about all the red tape and hassles but when you consider this one advertised by an "dealer" on Facebook which is going for R50k its actually a no brainer to import rather.

What are your thoughts?

"Restored" is a matter of opinion to most.

You cannot "restore" a bus to concourse level for 12k USD. What level of "restoration" are you after?

Very few of us can drop several hundred k on a bus, but with time and effort, you can build one up to a decent level.

By the time you've landed that 12k bus, you'll likely be looking at at least double that, landed; with keys in your hands and a disc on the window.

I've followed that bus in your post over the past few days. For what it is, I agree that it is mad for what it is.

I'll shortly be listing one of my buses for sale. I'm looking forward to the Armchair Militia's responses on Facebook...

remember importing a classic is very different to importing a new or almost new vehicle. I also know with our race cars its much easier and cheaper to import them than it is to import a modern road vehicle for example. The red tape is there purely to protect the local vehicle manufacturers.

Some interesting reading:
http://www.gov.za/services/import/impor ... ed-vehicle

Merlin, i am not looking for concourse and nor did I say those buses were concourse. The buses were both very clean and great looking honest buses and if they were being sold for say R350k in SA i am convinced they would have been bought by traders to make a quick buck..

Even if you double that pricing to have it landed with keys and disc on your window you are still looking at saving a pile of cash if you compare to the local pricing being asked.

(please no insult to anyone I am just trying to understand how the SA guys get their pricing especially as I always here "oh its priced for overseas buyers" or similar comments.)

brucet wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:04 am Merlin, i am not looking for concourse and nor did I say those buses were concourse. The buses were both very clean and great looking buses.

Even if you double that pricing to have it landed with keys and disc on your window you are still looking at saving a pile of cash if you compare to the local pricing.

I don't dispute that. If you're able to import a reasonable car, go for it. We all love seeing new additions to the local scene.

Many locals jump on the bandwagon; pricing their cars in line with what they find on eBay and Google.

Looks can be deceiving. Just because something looks the same doesn't mean that it is.

South Africa is unfortunately about as remote as it gets for most classic car folk. Shipping and our Duties make rebuilding cars very pricey. Factor in labour and the cost skyrockets.

Personally, I'm not interested in restored vehicles. I'm a pedant with my cars and build them to my standards.

I would also prefer a pretty original splitty rather than restored tbh but the question is wrt the pricing being asked just because its a "splitty". The other day I saw an advert for a Fleetline which looked fairly clean but had all the usual rust and worn out paint that most 40 year + buses have. I called the owner (as the price was not advertised) and he told me he was selling for R430k. I said but it looks like a Fleetline and he said he doesnt know what a Fleetline is but justified his price by telling me a splitty sold for US$200k the other day and that the Americans are paying big money for them hence his asking price. Insane in my eyes but good luck to him!

The pricing at the moment seems all over the place and I think the biggest contributing factor to the high pricing seems to be whether the seller is an enthusiast or a dealer. Im in the unfortunate position that I dont know much about the air cooled world, although im learning, and probably would pay for something i wanted irrespective of the selling price, but I also would not pay some of the premiums being asked. I will also definitely not buy from a dealer locally unless i knew them. (Also insane I know but I have a lot to learn!)

I'm in the same boat as Brucet and Merlin

If I'm in the market for a Split Bus or any other classic car for that matter will only buy a nice original example

If paint is "scuffed" and a few era marks is present it will be more attracted to me than a rebuild vehicle

I think we have to differentiate between asking prices and selling prices. We can all see asking price, but sale price is generally not visible. A seller can ask any price they like. But, if they are serious about selling, at some point they'll have to position their price where the market is prepared to pay.

Another point to note is that split bus prices are much higher in the UK than in the US (notwithstanding the anomalies that come out of Barrett Jackson and similar overblown auctions). There are a hell of a lot more split buses available in the US and there are large numbers of US LHD buses being exported to the UK. So comparing SA prices with US prices isn't really appropriate. It's a lot farther away than the UK and the cars are LHD.

I'm not as close to UK prices as I used to be, but I went onto the SSVC website this past weekend to catch up and it seems asking prices for decent split buses in the UK range between GBP20k to GBP40k. UK buyers are also actively hunting in SA, but I doubt any US buyer would even think about it; they have more than enough of their own LHD buses to choose from.

So the UK is a more relevant benchmark and will provide the answer why people think they can ask up to R700k for a split bus in SA. Sean gave the example of a neighbour who recently bought a restored split bus for R600k, so there are locals paying those sums; more of them than we might think. I don't see any of the regular restorers selling completed split buses for less than R500k.

And let's not forget the reason why prices have gone the way they have: in the past we didn't value our split buses as much as the poms or the aussies did, so we let them all be bought by foreigners or exporters. In the 1990s, when I started buying every split I could find, no one else wanted them, but the exporters were already busy. In the 2000s all we could do was bitch about exporters and UK prices (read the forum archives), but none of us showed up with the cash to keep the buses here. Now that we've lost most of them and the local demand is rising, it is inevitable that the prices will go sky high.

I noticed that in the 2000s, the poms were also buying up aussie buses until there were hardly any left in Oz. Now aussies are buying buses in the UK and prices in Oz seem even higher than the UK.

So maybe you're on the right track by thinking of importing Bruce. (Although I wouldn't want to try to import an old car to SA, for obvious reasons ...)

These days, I can't afford to buy VW buses, so I have to satisfy myself with buying Mercedes-Benzes!

The answer to this debate is pretty simple.
Restore a splitty yourself and keep all the slips.
Whether you buy the parts locally ( some people seem to think it's cheaper to import parts for a single bus, than buying from Us guys that bring in bulk parts and we save on shipping cost etc) and then add it all up in the end.....oh and don't forget to add a labour charge, (let me tell you, even your own time is not free. as your wife/girlfriend will remind you after hours !!)

Ask yourself to what standard do you wish to restore your investment ?? ( because this is what a splitty has become)
once you decide this ....go buy all the equipment, mig welder, grinders , spray gun, clamps, tools, compressor, etc.....and once you have completed your first project successfully and added up all the slips.....then complain about what is being asked for a decent, documented hassle free restoration locally in SA. If i can offer any advice it is this....as long as the donor bus is in good condition, the restoration will be less costly than a wreck like the one in your post.
Buy parts from people that restore as they know what the pitfalls are, we carry tried and tested stock for our own restorations plus surplus for customers doing their own restorations...so its convenient and you get free advice !! .. My 2c worth

Sorry to disagree but i saved around 30 to 40% on the items i imported for my bus rather than buying locally and they were delivered to my door in around 7 days. In some cases i saved even more than that. (Like my rear lights and front indicators cost me about the same as one rear light sorced locally)

I am also not saying it is not expensive to restore a bus especially a split window. I am saying i think it is almost getting to the stage where its cheaper to import than to buy locally if you can handle the frustration to sort out the paper work.

Bruce, you did save some money importing your parts yourself, but I think you will find that Jacques (splitbus) is talking about bringing in panels and floorpans. A much larger and bulkier item than a few windscreen rubbers.
I bring in a lot of parts myself and the biggest problem is the shipping cost.
With lots of small items, you can offset the cost into each and every little item, but when you bring in the heavy bits, then you suffer - a crankshaft for example works out to nearly $200 just for shipping. Unfortunately, I dont have the funds to bring in a container of parts - if I did then I wouldnt need to work anymore

But yes, coming back to topic - the price of these busses is nuts. And yes, it might be cheaper to import them back now...
I am just glad I got my panel when I did. I had a few guys tell me that I was mad paying the price that I did, but today, even being a later baywindow, I think its probably worth more than any other car in my garage.

Ah ok that would make sense. Apologies for disagreeing then splitbusaholic.

I must admit though that hunting down a bus and dragging it out of some shed on a farm or whatever, where it has been sitting for the last X amount of time still appeals to me more than importing one from overseas. (Like the one Fig found in the Limpopo recently that he shared in the for sale section)

brucet wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:44 pm Sorry to disagree but i saved around 30 to 40% on the items i imported for my bus rather than buying locally and they were delivered to my door in around 7 days. In some cases i saved even more than that. (Like my rear lights and front indicators cost me about the same as one rear light sorced locally)
I am also not saying it is not expensive to restore a bus especially a split window. I am saying i think it is almost getting to the stage where its cheaper to import than to buy locally if you can handle the frustration to sort out the paper work.

Bruce,regarding the import of spares.... We import a lot of spares direct from the source and we are also the approved Dealers for VW Heritage in SA and Klassic Fab. if You import bit by bit i can guarantee you that your landed cost is much higher than ours (most likely around 80 to 100%). We have tried all the different methods of shipping and on the smaller parts our landed cost averages around 65% (shipping, duties and vat). The other risk you have is if You import quite frequently, at some stage customs will stop your goods and ask for your importers code if you don't have one, then you have a problem.
Anything shipped from the U.S. is ridiculous as far as shipping is concerned, even with a "MY US" account, We bring nothing from the U.S.A. as the shipping kills it. We do however (because of our trade agreement with VW Heritage) bring Wolfsburg West parts into SA cheaper via Heritage than direct from WW themselves as Heritage and WW also have a trade agreement in place so the trade discounts make a difference and Heritage sea freights a couple of massive orders two or three times a year, this also cuts the shipping costs a lot ! The other plus point is that we carry all the guarantees on behalf of the suppliers so if there is a problem with a part , we exchange it for You no problem, If you imported the part yourself and there is a problem you sit with the problem.
If you would like to check out some prices then give us a shout : Aircooled spares SA 041 4510462.

Ok thank you splitbusaholic. I will certainly give you guys a try the next time I need something.