2.5 Air Cooled Combi Engine?

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2.5 Air Cooled Combi Engine?

Post by mhsmuts »

Hi everybody,

I have been told that a 2.5 aircooled combi motor exists and that it would be a nice upgrade to an aircooled project vehicle. Does anybody know of this motor if so, what is your opinion?

Thanks!

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Re: 2.5 Air Cooled Combi Engine?

Post by retrovan »

As far as I know the 2.5 was the modified 2223cc 5 cylinder that was run in the Audi and Passat models.

Was not a aircooled, but water cooled.

Think the biggest you can up the aircooled motor is 2336 cc but not sure , you need to ask guys like Tony Z

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Re: 2.5 Air Cooled Combi Engine?

Post by mhsmuts »

Thanks retrovan, I have it the same as you.

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Re: 2.5 Air Cooled Combi Engine?

Post by Tony Z »

retrovan wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:16 pm Think the biggest you can up the aircooled motor is 2336 cc but not sure , you need to ask guys like Tony Z

Herman
I've got a 2332cc in my bug and a 2110cc in my bus.
If I ever get around to it (read: I need the time), I'll be putting together a 2.8L aircooled engine.

Do not for 1 minute think that these custom built large cc engines are cheap.

But as far as stock goes, the 2L bus engine was the largest aircooled engine that VW offered. They can be taken up to over 3L but you are spending huge bucks to make it work nicely and survive.
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Re: 2.5 Air Cooled Combi Engine?

Post by mhsmuts »

What is big bucks Tony?

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Re: 2.5 Air Cooled Combi Engine?

Post by Eugene »

mhsmuts wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:20 am What is big bucks Tony?

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One can easily spend 5K :twisted:
You can never have enough Garages :-(
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Re: 2.5 Air Cooled Combi Engine?

Post by Tony Z »

Remmele for example has engines that cost the better side of 20 000 euro

Their heads:
Image

Image

cranks for these really big engines are costing upwards of R40k
piston and nikasil cylinder sets upwards of 70k per set. If you ever get to speak to Edi Remmele, he will tell you some really bizarre stories of pistons not surviving in his engines. He now has Mahle Germany making him custom pistons vaguely based upon those used in the older GT2. He talks about his track engines spending a few hours at 9000rpm and over, and then coming back only to find the pistons smaller than when he put them in.

My 2.8L us about as far as I am prepared to go money wise without being too ridiculous. I'm reusing some old parts that I've got, sourced some good used parts and got some extremely good deals on new parts. But there are some items that I did have to pay crazy prices for... and there are going to be a few parts that I'm going to have to custom make...

anything can be done cheaper but not to the same level.
Do not expect a huge cc engine to be even mildly affordable. We do it for the heck of it, not for financial sense. The only engine that makes financial sense is a stock 1600 but even then, when replacing most of it with new parts, the price rises very rapidly.
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Re: 2.5 Air Cooled Combi Engine?

Post by mhsmuts »

Thanks Tony, that is indeed very expensive.

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Re: 2.5 Air Cooled Combi Engine?

Post by sean »

Perhaps start with why you want to make it 2.5?

Do you want to tow heavy loads?

Or maybe drive over 180 km/h all day long?

Or just make a noise between robots?
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Re: 2.5 Air Cooled Combi Engine?

Post by mhsmuts »

I am participating in a few social rally's such as the Bullrun. Need something that can run strong, be reliable and surprise a few cars on the salt pans.Image

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Re: 2.5 Air Cooled Combi Engine?

Post by Bugger »

mhsmuts wrote:I am participating in a few social rally's such as the Bullrun. Need something that can run strong, be reliable and surprise a few cars on the salt pans.Image

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A average low budget 2.4 L motor sub assembly built out of a 2L type 4 motor you are in for around R60k

Using 350 Chevvy 103mm pistons
Machinning barrels from Meguires Duitz barrrels
And a few other things

Still it could not be reliable
If running hot you could have Valve seats coming out

But with proper oil coolers and cooling you still have to look after it

I do have a short block with heDs available but need to buy new pistons and get sleevs made

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Re: 2.5 Air Cooled Combi Engine?

Post by retrovan »

I would stay as close to stock 2l type 4 and fit smaller wheels as you do not need top speed on these rallies but lots of power lower down.

Get clearance built in so you do not have to run motor in and have overheating problems.

this will give reliability and performance the way you need it.

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Re: 2.5 Air Cooled Combi Engine?

Post by Tony Z »

I've got a 280deg cam and lifters that have approx 800km on them if you want to go that route.
Would work well if you upgraded to a set of twin IDF carbs and put on a good exhaust
you might need stronger valve springs and pushrods though
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Re: 2.5 Air Cooled Combi Engine?

Post by sean »

mhsmuts wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:22 pm I am participating in a few social rally's such as the Bullrun. Need something that can run strong, be reliable and surprise a few cars on the salt pans.Image

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Your number one priority should be to get rid of that low hanging exhaust immediately. The first rock you hit is going to do serious damage to your engine.

Stock standard = reliability
Stock standard = 160 km/h top speed. Do you want to go faster?

You need to first assess if your current setup is performing as it should when it was new. You could have badly performing carburettors, distributor, exhaust etc etc limiting the engines ability to perform how it should.
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Re: 2.5 Air Cooled Combi Engine?

Post by mhsmuts »

Although I am fairly handy working on cars I do not think it is an option for me to build a specialized modified air cooled engine.

I am not looking for a 10sec car no, and don't have the intention to drive at crazy speeds either. But I am looking for something strong and very fun to drive.

I will be fitting larger off road type wheels for better traction in sand and improved ground clearance, hence to requirement to significantly improve power.

From what I see here a water cooled upgrade is making sense. Better availability of parts and if done properly also more reliable I am assuming?

I am looking at upgrading the gearbox to, anybody know what this would cost and where I could have that done?

Thanks for everybody's input.

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