Mazda 13B conversion

Surge · Post by **Surge** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:01 pm

Now that I have some money to play with I'd like to resume my 13B powered bug conversion and could do with some info and help.

Firstly where can I get my hands on a 13B engine and adapter plate locally?
I know of a couple of places that can import a 13B for me but I'm wary of purchasing a dud and most places give you zero guarantee on rotary engines.

Secondly what does a decent spray job cost?
How much should decent quality, non-metalic paint cost?
How much would the labour cost?

Thanks

Bad Ass Bob · Post by **Bad Ass Bob** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:06 pm

Surge best you speak to Bugger that man is the guru on rotary conversions !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!B.A.B

vuyo · Post by **vuyo** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:24 pm

nice i love 13b s

Surge · Post by **Surge** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:26 pm

vuyo wrote:nice i love 13b s

I was planning a 3.0 V6 mid mount but the safety in the event of a collision concerned me too much. Large engine behind the seats ...

I saw and heard some 13B conversions at Cars in the Park 2006 and was impressed by how clean a conversion it is - no need to hack half the car up.

vuyo · Post by **vuyo** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:45 pm

if its a ford v6 you wasting your time, they are old and add whate to the car , get a 13B or a ABF

Surge · Post by **Surge** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:27 am

@Bugger - I PM'd you.

I need to get this conversion done fast (3 months max if possible).
I'm busy driving an old 626 and the braking really scares me!
(Heavy car and too much mass on the front end = several black stripes the last couple of weeks.)
Heavy cars suck.

SUZIE · Post by **SUZIE** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:36 am

Hi Surge, is your rear brakes working on that 626 of yours?

Surge · Post by **Surge** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:43 am

SUZIE wrote:Hi Surge, is your rear brakes working on that 626 of yours?

Yeah they work (got hot enough to burn my hand when I took the wheel nuts off).

I'd say that the braking distance is about twice that of my old '69 beetle with stock drums. Takes about 100 meters to stop from 120km/h on smooth tar. Need to sell it before I write it off.
Anyway I much prefer driving a Beetle - its got lots of character, nippy handling and doesn't cost an arm and a leg to maintain.

Post by **Tony Z** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:10 pm

Hi Surge, is your front brakes working on that 626 of yours?

Surge · Post by **Surge** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:42 pm

Tony Z wrote:Hi Surge, is your front brakes working on that 626 of yours?

Hehe ... yeah they work just fine - both front wheels lock up more or less at the same time so its not the brakes.
Anyway it's a good excuse to replace it with something that suits my tastes.

Post by **Tony Z** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:48 pm

get your shocks checked

Surge · Post by **Surge** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:57 pm

Tony Z wrote:get your shocks checked

They're fine - replaced all four recently.
It's just a bad '80s car design where the front dives too much under breaking.

Actually they're dampers and not "shocks" or "shock absorbers" but us South Africans seem to like using the wrong terminology.

The coil springs/leaf springs/torsion bars are what absorb the shock - the dampers dampen the rebound.

Post by **Bugger** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:50 pm

Surge wrote:@Bugger - I PM'd you.

I need to get this conversion done fast (3 months max if possible).
I'm busy driving an old 626 and the braking really scares me!
(Heavy car and too much mass on the front end = several black stripes the last couple of weeks.)
Heavy cars suck.

PM sent

When you are ready we can go to some of the importers and do the tests
and source a good motor

Adapter waiting reply on that

Carb or injection
Microtech +-R8500
Gotech 4age help+-R3500 and you also use the std crank angle sensor of the rx

Decent Carb and Manifold and aircleaner also around R3000 and you lose the turbo power if you go normally aspirated

The most economical way is 13BT with Gotech small surge tank and water level indicator safety relay and low / high boost and you are looking in the region of around R20K for nice reliable power

Surge · Post by **Surge** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:58 am

Bugger wrote: Carb or injection
Microtech +-R8500
Gotech 4age help+-R3500 and you also use the std crank angle sensor of the rx
Decent Carb and Manifold and aircleaner also around R3000 and you lose the turbo power if you go normally aspirated
The most economical way is 13BT with Gotech small surge tank and water level indicator safety relay and low / high boost and you are looking in the region of around R20K for nice reliable power

If possible I'd rather skip the turbo route and start with carbed or EFI, N/A to keep the complexity and cost down. Then later when I have more time and money I can go the turbo route. I know the turbo will help a lot at higher altitudes and it's very tempting but the plumbing looks like a nightmare and I'd rather tackle that later.
That way I don't have to worry about intercoolers, turbos, boost controllers, blow off valves, loads of pipework, etc. and if I do convert to turbo I have a spare NA engine as a backup when I need to overhaul the turbo one.

So from what I understand from your post and PM is that the best option for an NA engine is a Series 5, RX-7 engine with EFI or carb.
But the intake manifold and carb will cost a fair bit so I may as well just retain the EFI setup and add an EFI controller like Gotech?

Wikipedia lists the power output on the NA Series 5 engine as 119kW which is a fair bit more than I expected. Plenty for my needs - I just want something "nippy" and not something that leaves black stripes everywhere and uses 1 liter per km.

Post by **Bugger** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:37 pm

There is no extra plumbing to do on the turbo motor all the importers only bring in the turbo motors as far as I know

The motor std with its turbo and intercooler fitted on top with all the other shit stripped off ---Aircon power steering pump air pump emision control valves ---- it fits in the back of the bug with no cutting

When you buy the motor there is no extra you need to do when running it turbo

When you convert to n/a there are actually more to do blocking water pipes and oil supply atc

A std turbo motor with 4 PSI (about 0.3 bar ) boost you will enjoy endless with out breaking the box and no over heating problems