Oil Cooler Seals for Single Port 1600

[WestyT2]

Where can I find genuine DURABLE oil cooler seals for my 1600 single port. I have tried numerous dealers, some of them had twin port seals (10mm) but that wont work. I need the 8mm single port seals part no. 111-117-151. If the agents cant supply me with original seals, where can I a find good quality seals that wont let me down in the middle of nowhere in the Caprivi strip as happened to me last year? Can anybody please help me ?

[fig]

Hi Marius

I don't think anyone sells these seals loose any more. You can only get them in a complete engine gasket set. Most of the sets available at spares shops are usually poor quality these days.

Does anyone have a view on what brand of engine gasket sets are the best?

Have you tried a VW dealer? A few years ago they still supplied gasket sets for type1 engines.

[WestyT2]

Hi Fig. Yes, I have tried 4 dealers, 2 in Pretoria and 2 in the West Rand. None off them has got gasket sets, most of them has got the twin port seals. Goldwagen in Pretoria West do have a gasket set, but it is not genuine Vw, and thats the problem, as you said most of the local seals are off poor quality. Or can I trust Goldwagen and/or Volkspares ?

The best gasket sets are German made Elring or Victor Reinz gasket sets. I phoned Elring in South Africa, and was actually upset by the salesmen's answer that "aircooled parts are very scarse because these engines are becomming long in the tooth now" ! One can import Elring gasket sets but, with freight cost it works out at about R700.00 with this bad exchange rate.

[forcecooled]

There must be hundreds of those seals left over from kits used for doghouse engine rebuilds. I personally must have quite a few of them --mostly brazillian, i think, but the quality of the other seals used from the kit was good. If you are still in a spot with these , give me a ring and I will see what we can do.

ever thought of converting to doghouse ? Much better cooling of cylinders, heads and oil for the caprivi ! Better sealing system too.

Bill

084-612-1389

[forcecooled]

now that I come to think of it, there may well be some german seals among my collection.

phone me !

[fig]

ever thought of converting to doghouse ? Much better cooling of cylinders, heads and oil for the caprivi ! Better sealing system too.

I agree with Bill here.

A single port engine with the dual port doghouse cooling system and bigger fan is the best combination for reliability in a bus.

[WestyT2]

Yes, I agree, if I can get a complete doghouse setup somewhere with thermostat and flaps I would be over the moon ! Maybe someone have one for me ? I understand that a larger type 4 oilcooler could also be used in the doghouse setup? But apparantly there are a lot involved in such a conversion. Somebody told me my generator wont fit properly with the doghouse setup?

Fig, what is your opinion on a larger capacity deep oil sump? Some say the larger capacity will result in lower oil temps, other say that I will only have a lot more hot oil circulating in the engine?

[fig]

I've never used a deep sump and don't think it would add any value in anything but a high revving high-performance engine. It would also reduce your ground clearance under the engine; not desirable in a bus that's used for travelling in Southern Africa.

Your generator should fit fine in a doghouse fan housing, so long as you have the correct backing plates, which you presumably do or it would not fit in the stock fan housing either.

To fit a type4 cooler in a doghouse type1 fan housing needs some cutting and welding of the cowlings that surround the oil cooler.

To add a doghouse set-up to a single port engine, all you need is the following:
DP doghouse fan shroud and the two cowlings that cover the oil cooler
Front (FIF) vertical engine tin with hole for oil cooler warm air outlet
DP oil cooler and mounting adaptor
DP fan (35mm width)
There's also the "Hoover bit" that attaches the cowling to the oil cooler to prevent air leaks, but this is usually missing. I dispense with this by covering the entire cooler with a 10mm piece of foam rubber, which sorts out air leaks.

It's a bolt-on conversion and well worth the effort.

[Blitzkrieg]

Have you tried a good hydraulics supply place for the seals?

[WestyT2]

Hi Blitzkrieg, no I havent thought about that. Can u suggest a Company ?

[Blitzkrieg]

In Pretoria, there are a few companies, I just can't think of any names now

[forcecooled]

The flap boxes, thermostat, operating rod, mounting bracket and so on are the same on a doghouse housing and the non - doghouse housing - certainly as far as I know !

BUT

Best to leave all this out for a South African engine, even if you live in Sutherland. Whilst the system works fine in assisting in warm-up, it can, because of its linkage and bellows failure cause a massive engine overheating problems.

The components all end up rattling like hell anyway.

Some Gurus say that the Type 4 cooler modification is a waste of time. Might be easier on a van because there is a lot more space behind the fan housing, Isin't there?

I have a lot of bits needed for the conversion, including the type 4 cooler and mounting . We can discuss it when you phone about the cooler seals.

Talking about cooler seals, I have the brown good Brazillian ones,and white ones, which I am led to believe are better quality. They certainly seem more pliable, probably more silicone in the material . The white pushrod seals certainly seem better than the others as well.

[IMPI]

I only ever have problems with oil coolers if
1 there is a high pressure pump installed
2 the oil pressure relief pistons are stuck
3 the owner revs a cold engine
I have used Brazillian gasket sets as well as Elring as well as Victor Reins (BTW Victor Reins is made in Brazil now) and havent found much difference. There are Elring sets made in the US which are just as bad as any of the poor ones. Good German Elrings are the best though.
What I have found on early coolers is that the cooler bracket cracks and causes leaks.
From my own experience You could get totaly lost on the correct seal to use I have attemted to make a list of all possible uses.

there are four different types of oil cooler
1 type 1 black steel with 8mm oil holes
2 type 1 black steel with 10mm oil holes and stepped bracket
3 type 1 aluminium cooler with 5 rows and 10 mm holes
4 type 3 aluminium cooler with 5 rows and 10 mm holes and provision for oil pressure switch
5 type 4 aluminium cooler with 7 rows and 10mm holes

there are 4 different types of seal used
a rubber tube 9mm high
b shouldered rubber washer with 10 mm hole and 7mm shoulder
c shouldered rubber washer with 16 mm hole that tapers to 14mm and 4mm shoulder
d shouldered rubber washer with 16 mm hole and 4mm shoulder

there are 3 different types of casing used
I 6 mm studs and 8 mm oil holes
ii 6 mm stud and 10 mm holes
iii 8mm stud and 10 mm holes

there are 2 types of spacer used
x 3mm thick with 7mm hole (aluminium)
y 1.5 mm thick with 7mm hole (steel)


Matching table
engine cooler type casing type seal type spacer type special notes
type 1-2 1 I a no spacers none
type 1-2 1 ii c y match small side to cooler
type 1-2 2 I c no spacers match small side to casing
type 1-2 2 ii d no spacers none
type 3 4 I b x none
type 3 4 ii c y match small side to cooler
type 3 4 I c y match small side to casing
type 3 4 ii d no spacers none
type 1-2 3 iii d no spacers fit all four seals in kit
type 4 5 iii d no spacers nil
DO NOT USE ANY SEALANT ON SEALS IN ANY OILCOOLER

[WestyT2]

Hi Forcecooled, thanks, I will phone you tonight re the oil cooler seals.

IMPI, thanks for the info. I am a very cautious and considerate driver when it comes to my Westy. When cold I always let it warm up a bit (about two minutes) until it idles smoothly. Then I will drive slowly until I feel it has warmed up enough. I never over rev the engine and always keep the oil at the correct level. I do notice that the pressure relief valve is
'wet", but I am not sure if its the valve thats leaking or if it is the oil from the leaking cooler. None of the leaks are major, it might drop a bit of oil on the floor as large as a R5 coin overnight. Everytime I take a break on a long jourey, I touch the dipstick to have some king of indication of the oil temp, and I "smell" my engine. Even after 3 hours continuous driving (in Botswana), the dipstick still feels "cool",i e not burning my fingers. But when bitterly cold, like one night in Colesburg during winter 2005 (the whole bus was frosted up with ice all over the body) the engine would start but will stay cold for very long time . Even after I drove for about 15 min around town before hitting the N1, the engine would still not pull cleanly with a massive flat spot. I had to stop and wait another 10 odd minutes before it would run smoothly. Because of the different rates of expansion of the 3 types of metal in the engine, I do feel that a thermostat would increase my engine life. What is your opinion IMPI? And how do I know if the pressure relief valve is stuck? My oil presurre is good and the engine sound healthy and smooth.

[Dawie]

Thermostat.

On Samba forum,most people think its best to keep thermostat,unless the vehicle is used for drag racing.Noticed that Werner Alker keeps thermostats on his vehicles.
It is designed to fail in the open position,strong spring pressure forces it open when punctured.
Engine will last longer with thermostat,have more power sooner after startup and use less fuel,especially in town.
Its not in a mechanic s interest for jou to have a thermostat.It is easier to install the fanhousing when the thermostat rod is missing. He doesnt pay your fuel,and its not in his interest that jour engine lasts too long.

I have cylinderhead temp gauge with sending units on both heads and switch between them,also have oil temp gauge.My engine didnt have thermostat.It took forever to heat up and didnt get near operating temp in town.Bought the missing parts. Made a big difference in fuel consumption in town,also smoother to drive.

Others may differ ,most of them do not have cylinderhead temp gauges or keep accurate record of fuel consumption.