Snitch (Maatjien@@ier) on the forum

[Golfmad]

Its like watching a soapie.... sorry I know... Im off topic !!!!

[JohnHoffe]

At least in a soapie there's involved!!

[fig]

I've avoided getting involved in the NEED for a whule now as I'm tired of repeating myself, but here goes.

I think you see the real problem Ron, and our frustration is that there really is very little we can do about it. Unfortunately the playing field is not level. Cars that are exported from SA will never come back, because of exactly the economics you describe. The poms seem to have more disposable income than we do and the exchange rate is in their favour. They can buy from us but we can't buy from them. Saying that it's the same as us buying parts from overseas is spurious.

I think the real problem is exporters who are grossly profiteering. I don't think anyone here would really grudge an individual selling his car to the highest bidder. It's the mass exporters who are paying local prices and receiving UK prices that burn all our asses. But, whether we like it or not, they have a legitimate business, greed driven or not. The only way we can stop them is to pay prices equivalent to UK prices less the costs of getting the cars to the UK.

I am proud to say that I have consistently turned down offers from UK buyers for buses from my collection. I have been harrassed for a long time by a particular, and well-known UK bus enthusiast who wants my Oxford Radio panelvan, despite my insistence it is not for sale. However, the financial crunch has affected us all and I came very close to putting my Samba up for sale last year so I could keep paying the bond on my farm. If I lose the farm I would have to sell nearly all my cars as I have nowhere else to keep them. Fortunately I managed to keep my nose above water and the samba is not for sale. But if I do sell it, it will be priced at UK value minus shipping, etc. I would give SAs some time to respond, but in the end it would go to whoever showed me the money. You're right on that count Ron, we'd all do it.

I have recently started buying buses for the sole purpose of flipping them. It's a slippery slope. So far I have added a reasonable mark-up and kept prices affordable for locals. I know I could make a lot more if I succumbed to greed and replied to our UK pal. In the past I have inadvertently sold buses to exporters for local prices and been surprised to find them for sale in the UK just weeks later for many, many times more than I sold them for. That really burns. But I do get that I can't control what anyone else does with THEIR car once I have sold it to them. I do interview potential buyers to establish their good faith and intentions and I won't sell a bus to anyone I have doubts about. Many people would probably call me stupid, but I am in this hobby for the love of it, not for the money I can make.

Every car that is exported from SA compromises our ability to build a community and to establish businesses supplying parts and services to the community. Every car gone means one less SA enthusiast; one less car needing parts and restoration services; one less car for us to drool over at shows. It's a downward spiral and we all lose.

This thread is a result of the 70 westy that I sold to ChrisG last week, and the fact that a banned UK importer contacted me before any legitimate forum members had responded. I have no personal issues with this person; I maintain cordial relations with him and he knows my views on this subject. I deliberately advertised that bus here first, to give local ACVW enthusiasts first option. If it hadn't sold here I would have placed it on Gumtree, Auto Trader and Junk Mail, where foreign buyers and scalpers would have access to it. If there had been no local takers within a reasonable time, I would have sold it to whoever was willing to pay. Just like the POS Fleetline I sold to an aussie last year. After six months advertised locally there were NO takers, except the aussie. He was happy to pay me nearly double the local price and I was open with him about the fact that the price to him was not the same as the price to locals.

Before this turns into a book, let me finish by repeating my main points:
1. The ENEMY here is the profiteering exporters who are driven by greed, not individuals trying to maximise their value from THEIR cars.
2. Until we are able/willing to pay global market prices for our classic cars we can't really complain about them leaving SA. It's unfair, but it's the reality we live with.

And finally, RESPECT to Eben for the efforts he goes to to create a safe space where SA enthusiasts can talk and share ACVWs without greedheads constantly hovering overhead like vultures. Eben owns the site and he makes the rules. Anyone who doesn't like that is free to fcuk off and start their own forum.

[calooker]

Fig's views, DITTO.

[Sambabus]

Pal, you know nothing about me, or Gill or me&Gill. Let's see how clever you will be if someone offers you a quarter or half a mil for your bus. Affected by exporter?? Probably the least of all.[/quote]


Been there done that,got the guys number for any 1 that doesnt believe me,16 000 pounds,(as is,before the respray and body work,)....i told the exporter he is waisting his time,and mine,..he carried on and i told him to f@ck off,quote unquote,


How easy is it to find spares for your bus,or any other of your ACVWs?......Iv been looking for a bumper,amoung a lot of other spares for a really long time,....maybe im going off half cocked,but i think if ALL our ACVWs were still here,i wouldnt battle so much,dont you?




And Ron,or Gill,im not attacking you at all,and ment no harm,if you did take afence,then you had better start running,before the owner comes looking for it!!!!

[Ron&Gill]

Well put. I also almost put in there that we should start paying international prices for our cars, but I thought I would get flamed... I'm sorry to hear you got burned, but that again is because no-one comes up with the dough, but they are quick to critisize. Lemme put it like this, to all those that moan about this situation, next time you see a VW for sale, buy it. I've got 6 already, and if I had a farm like Fig, I'd have more, I am f'r f&^%-sake building another house to get more garage space!! Imagine that, a little holiday house with a garage for 3 ACWVs attached!! Still want a T14 KG though. Gill will shoot me... Actually, probably not!

[Tom Bishop]

Ron, At last we seem to agree.

If the locals are prepared to pay international prices = no more problem.

By hiding our cars it becomes a old boys club that cant be trusted.

It you are the good guy and sell it to a local then he exports it and makes the money.

Its call business. Buy for the lowest price and sell for the highest.

I belong to the Crank Handel Club and there has been quite few imports from USA, Germany, Canada and Australia in the last years. Is it wrong for these guys to import cars.

Would still like to know who the Jekyll and Hyde person is. I say Publish the names. If the pot fits wear it.

[Ron&Gill]

And Ron,or Gill,im not attacking you at all,and ment no harm,if you did take afence,then you had better start running,before the owner comes looking for it!!!!

None taken. I was ranting. I think we all understand each other. Good luck finding that rear bumper, I believe they are made from unobtainium...

[eben]

Only problem with the solution provided is that:
International prices <> what most locals can afford, for example ChrisG.
He is the kind of guy that we want in the community. But if the prices go out of reach, down goes the numbers in the community and those that got their cars at SA prices have to give them up because they cannot afford parts for repairs....
In an ideal world the price of ACVW's in the UK should have F'ALL to to do with the prices of ACVW's in SA.
You can get 5 year old cars in the UK for next to nothing but that doesn't mean it is the same for 5 year old cars in SA.
For some reason ACVW's seem to be traded the same way crude oil is traded at a "global" level.

Also don't fool yourselves that the exporters really buy from people in SA who know the "global" value of the vehicle that they are selling.

[Ron&Gill]

Ron, At last we seem to agree.

Oh no!! I'm going to have to change my whole story now, otherwise you'll be running a 009 next and I don't want to do that to you!! Got a number for an exporter??

Hope I'll see you at the social on the 6th! I got a spare 009 for you... Cheers buddy...

[greenbean]

Just wondering who will pay the price Didi wants for his Ghia locally...........................................

[vader]

YAAAAAWWWWNNNNN!!!!!

[Dutch_Diver]

Get real. Most of you, no, ALL of you, if you owned a sought after VW and wanted to, or had to sell it, would sell to whoever gives you the most money. End.

Ron&Gill, Sorry I don't know you so difficult to answer....but you don't know me either. You are talking shit because you are putting everyone into the same bucket. I owned a 68 MGC worth £10k. I restored it at a cost of over £14k over 5 years. When I left the UK i was offered £10k by someone who wanted to cut the top off and customize it. There are only 427 left in the world! I told him to f@ck off and I actually sold it to a 65 year old man for £4,400 (all he could afford) as he promised to keep it, look after it and pass it on to another who believed the same as me. So I'm telling you....shallow people are all money but there are people with heart, sole and a willing to help others for no reward because that's a good thing to do and we are judged by our actions.

I have a beetle that I have spent close on R70000 building up. I must be honest, If Shit hits the fan and I have to sell, there would be few South Africans willing to cough up the Dough. What options would I be left with?

We all send money on restoring but just because you spend that money, don't think the car's worth that. I've probably spent twice as much on MO as she's worth but I don't care. People are willing to pay in SA for nice cars....just takes time.

By the way, can we stop hitting all the POMS please....any developed country export SA buses...Ron is right in that sellers sell for top price and don't care. Exporters are providing a service to aid sellers who have different morals....what pisses me off is you can't generalise!

But if I do sell it, it will be priced at UK value minus shipping, etc. I would give SAs some time to respond, but in the end it would go to whoever showed me the money. You're right on that count Ron, we'd all do it.

2. Until we are able/willing to pay global market prices for our classic cars we can't really complain about them leaving SA. It's unfair, but it's the reality we live with.

And finally, RESPECT to Eben for the efforts he goes to to create a safe space where SA enthusiasts can talk and share ACVWs without greedheads contantly hovering overhead like vultures. Eben owns the site and he makes the rules. Anyone who doesn't like that is free to fcuk off and start their own forum.

Fig, I understand but I will happily buy your Samba for UK price minus shipping, shipping insurance, and UK import VAT. As I mentioned above on the Ron response, please don't put everyone into the same bucket! We aren't all here for money, some of us like to help or be good humans to others without personal greed. I agree Fig with your giving SA people the opportunity and time, that's all I ask. I'm looking for a nice VW as a next project and I'm willing to pay UK prices for the right car......so people are out there willing to spend the money, they just need to know what's available and have time to raise funds......exporters have immediate money and know the market...time is all I can ask for and if no one steps up in SA, we can't complain after the fact.....

I agree with the fact that Eben is a total star!

Just wondering who will pay the price Didi wants for his Ghia locally...........................................

How much does he want.....I'm pretty sure we can find a buyer locally if the car is truly worth it. Please also remember that the vehicles in SA aren't repaired / restored to the UK standards. We complain in other threads about this all the time. The Exporters are a little naughty as they export SA ACVW's saying they are original, perfect, no rust, fully serviced, one owner and that gets the price. But take MO, exporter would have paid R44k for her and sold in the UK for £8k minimum. The buyer would have bought that and just look at my thread on the work I did....the brakes would have killed someone in the UK who thought they had bought a good vehicle.

I agree to paying the right price....what the vehicle is worth....that takes in all the good and bad points and things that need to be addressed. To be honest, I could have bought a bus back from the UK to SA for the same money I've spend on MO but by doing what I've done, I supported one family guy by R55k, an upholster by R18k, another family garage business by R10k a student by R44k and other suppliers for all the bits around R20k.

YAAAAAWWWWNNNNN!!!!!

Go to sleep.......

[vader]

Sorry it was a long Friday and that is as far as I got in the thread before my helmet hit the desk.... Now that i have awoken again this topic is simply stimulating...

Ain't open debate marvelous!!!!

There are good views on both side...

Touche...Dutch

A HIT!!

A very probable hit!!!

[Dutch_Diver]

Sorry it was a long Friday and that is as far as I got in the thread before my helmet hit the desk.... Now that i have awoken again this topic is simply stimulating...

Ain't open debate marvelous!!!!

There are good views on both side...

Touche...Dutch

A HIT!!

A very probable hit!!!

May the force be with me my Lord .......I might need it