Hold on to your fleetline..... Here they come.....

[ChrisG]

[Klaus]

Ron you're 100% percent on the money - this is an expensive exercise in whatever currency you talk. If you think our buses are cheap from the eurozone perspective then you haven't factored in that most of our buses are stuffed well beyond most other "source" countries and our export/import guys aren't the most helpful or cheapest in the world.

I personally think more buses are pillaged from the U.S of A on a daily basis than we see in the whole year of SA (and the exchange rate isn't really the factor - quality and ease of export is !)

You dont need to do a major market research campaign to see my point, this just open the latest Ultra or Volksworld and look at how many SA importers are advertised (1) to the amount of Australian and USA exporters (Dozens)

Our problem is that we are hiding our buses behind closed doors and not bringing them out to create more of a following even from those supporters from other marques and thus defusing the little foreign interest that we have !

[eben]

"skills are not on par."

A-PHUKEN-MEN!

Thankfully there are a select few who are able to do bits and know what to do. (hello buggoff/pierre and a few select others)

please correct me if this is not still the case: in sA acvw's are mostly "patched" to be used as daily drivers( I have one of those) in the UK they are mostly groomed to catch the pen of some snob in a niche magazine..... in sA you buy your vw in junkmail and in the UK you buy your vw on the stock market.....

now the problem arises because the snob pleasers in the UK is meddling with the junkmail daily driver scene thousands of miles away.... anyone digesting these two groups can compete on the same field, I disagree with. its not possible. I bet there are loads of daily drivers on this site that don't want or can afford a garage full of cars, but would like to stop this "free-market" meddling. a world where money is the only measure... kinda clashes with the whole setup of owning a acvw in sA.......

[Klaus]

The two are worlds apart as you say Eben - ps. will be back int he UK in december - I owe you a beer !!

[Ron&Gill]

Let me correct you, because you ARE wrong. In SA, both groups exist, side by side. While one group applauds the junk mail adds and original, but severely dated, concept of a people's car, the other hails the recognition of classic status and the increased of value of their asset and accepts the associated high prices especially of imported parts.

As a matter of fact, they benefit from each other. The snob can get his parts a bit cheaper and so can afford to have a second, or third project and the poor student can sell his patched up POS (and I use this term only for the sake of this argument) on for a higher price and keep himself in beer for a whole semester. Well, maybe not a whole semester...

In the UK also, many of the Beetles and T3s you see are in fact daily drivers. As often featured in the snob magazines you are refering to.

If you want a patched up, but affordable daily driver, buy a 2nd hand Citi Golf or a Taz, their parts availability is better and so are their safety features and they don't rust as bad.

[Klaus]

The small portion of folk on this site and those that "do" attend shows may fit into the more affluent martket but as a whole (VW Aircooleds on the streeats and parked up at at shopping malls) is what Eben is refering to. This is where the exporter market stems from. Like most things in SA the events and followings are more an "exclusive" club (i.e. you only know whats going on if you know someone connected to the scene)

[Ron&Gill]

The small portion of folk on this site and those that "do" attend shows may fit into the more affluent martket but as a whole (VW Aircooleds on the streeats and parked up at at shopping malls) is what Eben is refering to. This is where the exporter market stems from. Like most things in SA the events and followings are more an "exclusive" club (i.e. you only know whats going on if you know someone connected to the scene)

No it's not. He is flogging the dead horse that ACVW prices must stay the same and not go up, and it's all the exporters fault that they do, and anybody who says it is free market forces is wrong, and has obviously got money, which none of the forum members want, so there... Something like that. I've not been able to make much sense of it...

I was going to say more, but fcuk-it. Been there before, not interested in going there again. The fcuking horse is dead!

[eben]

Wow Ron so you do understand what I mean you just choose not to agree
Obviously we are in those two different groups. I won't pretend to like your opinion or agree with it but of course you have a right to have your own as I have mine.

[Ron&Gill]

No, I really don't understand your point... Don't think I ever will. I mean free market forces. What's to argue about? They happen, like the sun coming up and going down. And people will alway look for the best deal, no argument, it's like breathing. And here's the rub, money does matter always but less and less the more affluent you get. So no, I don't get your point. It doesn't gel. But that's neither here nor there, you're entitled to your point of view.

But what I don't like is your assumption that I am in a certain group. I'm not. I started in the shoestring ACVW group, and when I play, that's the group I play in, the fact that I own a few projects which are being done by e.g. Jurgen, does not mean I don't enjoy getting my hands dirty. I do, and I do it at every opportunity. The advise I pass on on this forum is always based on experience. If it is hearsay, I say so.

Maybe you didn't know this about me, because we don't know each other at all actually. With some luck, that might change someday. Cheers...

[eben]

It still sounds like you understand my point but you don't agree with it....

Now, if free-market is so wonderful then why is there a need for fairtrade products?

Will you be in SA in the first quarter of 2011?

[hitlers revenge]

Reading between the lines it sounds like a boxing match is comming up..............Thats if Ron is home in January.

Eben, Ron is twice your size.

[Ron&Gill]

Who says we need fair trade products. It sounds like an over-meddling government democratic labour socialist leftist over-indulgence. Why do we need it? WE DON'T!!!

That's the whole fcuking point!!!!!!!!!!! Now we are getting somewhere...

Q1 of 2011? Yes, but very hard to say when exactly, I will be in the AK47-toting-dissident riddled, Malaria infested African jungle somewhere developing the GDP potential (or individual civil servant wealth, if you prefer) of a sub-Saharan country and for my evil and disproportionate personal gain (and so's you can keep warm at night... and become wealthy in your own right by benefiting from the increased dividends or trading the stock of the oil giant I work for, from the safety and comfort of your home and family).

Ask me closer to December.

[eben]

Ask me closer to December.

Cool I'll bring some wine....

[Ron&Gill]

Well, WTF is the point of that?

Apart from trying to sell as much as possible of el-cheepo a nasty-ar$e Clanwilliam-clay flavoured pinotage, with a slight hint of R27/N7 dust from up the West Coast? Now lots of good things come from the West Coast, and most things that come from the West Coast are good, but the wine's not one of them.

The wine can't sell itself because of it's quality, so it now appeals to the PC tree-huggers to buy the crap to make their little hearts beat a bit faster with self-indulgence. Fcuk that, I say, bring the wine, if it's good, I'll buy it and if all the money goes to the wine maker iso the grape picker, I have no problem with that either. The grape picker should have tried harder at school, then he would have been the wine maker!

Where was it I read of the wine farmer who sent his wine to the lab and the answer came back:

"Your horse has diabetes."