Towing A-Frame for Split Bus & Beetle

[retrovan]

Edit;- Have just tested prototype # 3, And has Past all test so far...... Sadly will not fit type 3, made dedicated one for type 3.



Now follow thread, final photos at end.......


HI all,
Has anybody got the drawing for a A-Frame to tow a split bus, even photos, will be fine.

Do not want to re-invent the wheel, so will be looking to someone's design that has towed for 100's of Km, without a problem.

Was thinking of a clamp on to the front beam, as the right way to go, but awaiting you reply.

Herman

[fig]

I have successfully used an A-frame to tow a bus for some distance, but I don't believe A-frames are safe, especially not for towing hundreds of km. Why do you want an A-frame rather than a car trailer? Is the bus you're planning on towing roadworthy? I personally wouldn't tow any vehicle on an A-frame that was not roadworthy. I've heard of far too many horror stories of things like wheel bearings or transmissions seizing and the towed vehicle rolling.

Towing is inherently dangerous, even when using a proper car trailer and heavy tow vehicle. Why make it more dangerous than it needs to be?

I think the only safe way to tow a vehicle is on a rollback flatbed truck.

If you must use an A-frame, I'd suggest using the front bumper mounts to mount it. Problem with clamping it to the beam is the tow hitch is likely to be significantly higher than the bottom beam. Also I believe the new regs say you not only need a light/reflector board for the towed vehicle, but also an orange flashing warning light as well. Does anyone know if A-frames are even legal? The regs say any trailer over 750kg GVM must have its own brakes. Keep in mind that a bus weighs over a ton anmd it won't have its own brakes on an A-frame, which means your towing vehicle will need brakes for both cars.

I know there are many on this forum who use A-frames regularly and have no issues with them, but I think one would be crazy to drag an old bus out of a barn or field and tow it any distance with an A-frame without first going through the brakes, wheel bearings and suspension.

Sorry, I know you just asked for plans to make an A-frame, not a lecture on the dangers of towing, but I don't want to see any people or buses getting hurt.

[retrovan]

Fig, I agree with you,

The Idea is not to tow the bus at 100 Kph, but to take it from place to place, at controlled speed.

The National Road Ordinance does allow for A-Frame towing, as long as the coupling is of Sound design, and capable of controlling the towed car.

Also the towed vehicle must be licensed and RWC, unless with trade plates, (got them)

Have been towing my DKW , and other cars this way for years, and still safer then mobi-jack's, dolly's or trailers.

As you said, you must ensure the vehicle, will allow itself to be towed, and therefore the A-Frame must be securely fixed to the car.

The idea to fix a A-frame with a belt, or even a temporary few bolts is looking for

The A-Frame that I will be making will have bolt-able fixtures bolted to both legs. (top & bottom)of the beam, This will form a solid, secure bolting point for the A-Frame. (if you use the bumper mounts of a VW aircooled, you may as well set fire to the car, and have pleasure in seeing it be destroyed, because it will rip out, and you will have an accident, and you will kill some one, as these were never designed to carry load.)

The A-frame will then be bolted with swivel, 100 mm under the beam, allow it to clear the bottom of the car by a nice margin, so as not to damage the car, and allow steering control.

All bolt's must be High Tensile bolts, well lubricated, with ball coupler and safety chain. Steering wheel will be fixed with bunggy cord to allow slight movement to follow tow vehicle, but to stop "tank-slap" steering.

Also a chevron with lights will be placed on back of bus when towing.

Just want to see if anybody has a better design then mine.

Herman

[fig]

Sounds like you've got it wrapped.

I agree re using the bumper mounts on a Beetle, but a bus can handle towing load on the bumper mounts. The optional factory towing hook for the front of a split bus bolts directly to the bumper mounts, and baywindows have a standard front towing eye welded to the bumper mount.

[retrovan]

Shot, thanks, should you come across a better mouse trap, let me know...

[beetlefanatic]

Syncromad has a nice one that he tows Syncros with. At high speed and great distances. Don't ask how I know.

[retrovan]

As he who does not know.....could you have a photo posted here for us that will not ask how you know, but as we all need the know, the photo will tell us all we want to know.

So all Knowing, please share all you know, with out us asking, ..............Please.

[Bugger]

As he who does not know.....could you have a photo posted here for us that will not ask how you know, but as we all need the know, the photo will tell us all we want to know.

So all Knowing, please share all you know, with out us asking, ..............Please.

Holy have you studied POETRY OR Poltery

[beetlefanatic]

As he who does not know.....could you have a photo posted here for us that will not ask how you know, but as we all need the know, the photo will tell us all we want to know.

So all Knowing, please share all you know, with out us asking, ..............Please.

Sorry, don't have any pics. Ask Syncromad if he can post some.

[splitfan]

Bonny has one for a bus that I have used a couple of times as Fig says bolts to the bumper (you have to take the bumper off and use the brakets) this makes it a pain but its solid and safe...ish this way.

[Goosebeak]

I use an A-frame for my Aqua, Lucy, that bolts on to the two 'eyes' under the front end - and I've towed her all the way down to the coast like that, with no problems.

As for lights, I connect her lights to my towcar's lights via a trailer-type connector and her taillights, indicators, parks - everything - work just like on a trailer.

[fig]

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=480404

[retrovan]

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=480404

Hi Fig, Thanks,

did also read that thread.
also got info from others on the Samba,
was also offered on of those Tin foil tow bars, but refused.

As can be seen, there is as much, if not more likelihood of accidents, with a dolly, mobi-jack and trailer.

It is also clear that a lot of guys will tow a Bus with a Beetle bar.

The guys that have towed regularly without accidents, are the guys with substantial tow bars, that have had safety chains, that have strapped the steering wheel down, and not speeded. Also the beetle bar has a weakness in the double "S" bend, which has cost owners dear.

I have worked out the stressed areas, of the bar, from all the good working bars, as well as the ones that have failed, and think I have come up with the correct bar. One must not forget that the tow frame must FORM part of the chassis and therefore have the right strength. It must after all manhandle the towed bus to go where you want it to go, and not the other way round.

Will be bending up the parts, and then testing it for deflection, will keep you posted.

[retrovan]

Hi All,
Have tested Proto-type #3, and it passed the stress test as well as the road test with flying colours....

Even made the 1959 Beetle the sacrificial Lamb for these tests...

Did not do 120 Kph on the highway, did not swing the steering side to side, to not test the stability, did not do emergency stops, and did not do jerk avoidance test at high speed.....

But with all the tests I did not do, the A-Frame performed perfect.

Very happy with results.

The A-Fram has been made universal, so I can use it for Beetle, Type 3 as well as Bus.

Even with the difference in Beam thickness, the A-Frame has been made with adjustment.

To Late to post photos, but will post when I take Beetle out of hiding, errm.... I mean, ...when I have time....

Till next time.

Herman

[retrovan]

Hi all,
Have tested the bar in workshop, in press shop and with the Beetle on a road test, here are the photos of the road test.











Than found a bus victim, and did a few tests with it, just to make sure it works, ....Well it DOES..
Start of test....










End of test.....



Taaa.....Daaa...... This is what the final fully tested A-Frame looks like.....





Herman