Do you really get what you pay for?

[DeutchKraght]

Well said Retrovan (don't know your real name yet, lol). Short and to the point.

[splitbusahollic]

Derek, do me a favour....go irritate someone else please...
i have given you fact's instead of opinion and you still don't get it....Yes we do have a great reputation and i will defend that at all cost, especially against inexperienced novices, ...and purely as an educational exercise ,so you don't make the same mistake again i future...

For the Normal Guys on here , apologies for the Rant , but i just can't help myself when some quick fixer thinks they are restoration experts and blab their mouths off about something they have never attempted

In Closure..... most of us have a common Goal , to own a vintage VW vehicle , be it beetle or Bus or anything in between , we all have a passion,we all love that Badge !!! i have been on this forum for a number of years , and loved every minute because of that common goal, people on here are mostly respectful of others and there are very few locked threads because of bad mouthing, ( since Vader has gone quiet and there are no safari's offered on auction Eugene !!) nevertheless... the newbies should really try and spend a bit of time and read through some of the older stuff and realize and appreciate the magnitude of knowledge and experience available on this forum ...as examples ...the zebra safari with Fig !! awesome huge respect !!! , bugger and his transmissions !! immense knowledge , Pine and His beach Buggy ... nice paint job !! , Impi and his perfections ...and his awesome workshop that we all watched being built ! Retro van and his innovative type 3 dashboards (what a contribution ) !! ..just to name a few... and in all that no one bad mouthed any one's work or experiences...so ask yourself ............why are you here ?
end of story.

[62vwbeetle]

Ok so for those who are curios. A paint job on a 356 excluding metal work and panels. R 55k and then it arrives probably better than factory finish. Add to that 65k worth of panels and r 50 k for cutting welding panel alignment etc etc. all of a sudden the 180k for a bus that looks great and is on the road and running is EXCEPTiOnAL VALue !

Dude your Kombi looks great. I would be happy with it all day

[Barry]

... and in all that no one bad mouthed any one's work or experiences...so ask yourself ............why are you here ?
end of story.

Jacques, on the other hand, there are plenty of rip-off artists in this game. I haven't seen one of your completed buses in person, so I cannot comment one way or the other.
This story VERY definitely has two sides though: Punters expecting to get something for nothing, AND 'shops' that seem to have no qualms about taking people's money for substandard work.

My point is that it is tough for honest shops (no-one is getting rich out of doing things properly) and clients who want good value at whatever budget they have available.
Proper research and thorough understanding of expectations is the only way to have a chance of everyone ending up satisfied......

[Barry]

... and in all that no one bad mouthed any one's work or experiences...so ask yourself ............why are you here ?
end of story.

Jacques, on the other hand, there are plenty of rip-off artists in this game. I haven't seen one of your completed buses in person, so I cannot comment one way or the other.
This story VERY definitely has two sides though: Punters expecting to get something for nothing, AND 'shops' that seem to have no qualms about taking people's money for substandard work.

My point is that it is tough for honest shops (no-one is getting rich out of doing things properly) and clients who want good value at whatever budget they have available.
Proper research and thorough understanding of expectations and the scope of work is the only way to have a chance of everyone ending up satisfied......

[Bugger]

VdubTECH have just finished 2x Baywindow Busses that had the a-z done on them 1 bus with 2L Golf motor and the other with a 1600 twin port motor

Let me tell you that for the Price we done it we really did not make real money out of them will up load pics still , complete interiors,mechanical s,reconditioned transmissions and engines new tyres the works . but I put bread on the Table and I enjoy the Clients smile when collecting
building a Bay-window bus is a walk in the park against Building a split bus that needed on average R30K replacement panels when you started the Project

I have also done R12K paint jobs Danie on the Forum is a Client and testimony
When you start with a straight bus you are lucky

Dec 2012 197 (Small).JPG

Early Dec 2012 054 (Small).JPG

I am actually busy repairing a baywindow bus that just had a R35K paint job done to it
Splitbusaholic actually helped the guy when he got stranded and transported the bus up to GP
Then he was seriously Ripped off by some PB which did not even repaired the engine lid hindges aswell as the left arm of the rear cargo door was broken off so you could not fit the rear cargo door

I always try and give my clients a choice of Paint Quality
Split busses there are very very very very few Panel beaters that will tackle the average rusted piece of "Junk" that is available now adays for less than R100K as they make alot more Quick money on new Cars

I can go on and on about the paint Quality as out of Experience I only have a certain amount of time Allocated to a Project for Paint and the rest of the Project
It does not come cheap to train guys to the quality standard we all would like to have.

I can Openly say that there was a few of my Clients that we have done the Cheaper Paint and other accessories to a Project as the Client have a Budget and in stead of disappointing them we get the Vehicle whether it is a Buggy , Beetle ,Bus,Speedster,Etc back on the road

Yes I do have a problem with that as what have just append on the thread can happen with me and then there was maybe a panel not painted or something left out (Not safety wise) and then the bus gets Criticized and the Company who done it gets a bad rap

At the end of the day I am a good and honest businessman and same Jacques we try and get these Vehicles back on the Road in SA and that is what is growing the market also due to people see the Quality and biggest advertising is Word of Mouth


Here is just an example of how the average split bus looks before start,after sandblasting now you can see all the years hidden damages,red oxide, preparation and paint

Give us some feedback as do we cut corners or does it sound fair if we charge around R50-60K to Paint a bus like this including supply of panels and this is a SC not even a 15 window Fleetline that normally got lots of rust ?

070 (Small).JPG

070 (Small).JPG

Brandon 13Bturbo Chop Split bug 019 (Small).JPG

Dec 2011 010 (Small) - Copy.JPG

We all are just trying to make a honest buck

[Derek]

biggest advertising is Word of Mouth

You're absolutely right there Bugger...So when one looks at a restored vehicle and two other people are also looking at it and criticizing the workmanship I guess that is bad advertising then

For me the greatest feeling is when I take a dilapidated kombi and within a month or two we have it back on the road with a happy local or foreign tourist departing on a roadtrip up the West Coast or to Knysna in it...Some of my hirers are actually German tourists who tell me that it is virtually impossible for them to hire a Westfalia Bay in Germany at a reasonable price...Some are older tourists, but some are also younger, and have never had the chance to drive a Bay before.

I do have the greatest respect for restorers of classic cars and I am well aware of the hours of labour and the costs involved - it was not my intention to cast doubt on the whole industry at all, or even try and identify one particular company as being lacking. Your humble, balanced response is appreciated. I think people choose who do to business with by balancing the quality of work with the cost, and also importantly with the character of the people they will have to deal with. So this thread has to me been positive in that I think it has allowed anybody reading it to gain an insight into the character and personality of a few of the guys who offer their services in the restoring business...

[Terry Phillips]

Some times critersisem is not a bad thing for a business as it has a lot you can learn from to help improve your quality in certain cases.
As they say Act before you React.

[Barry]

Some times critersisem is not a bad thing for a business as it has a lot you can learn from to help improve your quality in certain cases.
As they say Act before you React.

True Terry. I would like to think that I am open to fairly made comments, and I tend to be my own harshest critic. I have dedicated the past 10 years or so to improving my sheet metal and fabrication skills, and I know how damn far I still need to go before I would regard myself as an expert.
Also, my universal experience is that those doing the shoddiest work seem to be the most arrogant and defensive about it. Every one of them has an attitude of 'you can't teach me anything', while the guys I really rate and look up to are (for the most part) very humble about their abilities.
This pattern is so common that I use it as a yardstick in choosing vendors and suppliers I use, and people I collaborate with - when their insistence that they are geniuses is their main selling point, rather than letting their work speak for itself, I see red flags......

[acpaterson]

I like that Barry, and totally agree with you.

[62vwbeetle]

The best way to express dissapointment with a job is direct with the supplier The public name and shame from behind a computer is not the way to go.

These guys are businessmen and if u go to a quLity supplier u will get QuLity work. I have done many beetles and I stumbled on a supplier who always gives me great service. Understands the cars and the fact that we all don't have pockets as deep as a mine shaft but always gives me more.value than I could expect. I alwYs default to @bugger and Johan and will openly promote them to all I know as a result of my dealings with them.

[Barry]

The best way to express dissapointment with a job is direct with the supplier The public name and shame from behind a computer is not the way to go.

These guys are businessmen and if u go to a quLity supplier u will get QuLity work....... .

I disagree. I can point you to shops that have SERIOUSLY messed up cars, and somehow they keep getting business.
Your statement does hold if the supplier is in business for reasons that align with your values, and is in it for the long haul. Generally these guys have paid their dues and money is not their main motivation. (Believe me, no-one is getting rich out of doing good work at fair prices)
One of the downsides to living in a country with as much freedom as we have in SA is that people can get away with more. Anyone can reinvent themselves from one week to the next. Nothing stops any monkey with a grinder and a hot-metal-pump from hanging out a shingle and inviting punters. When this is combined with some fast talking, there seems to be a never ending supply of people willing to get ripped off.....

The flipside is some ridiculously low expectations of cost and value. As long as there are people wanting R10k spray jobs, and R50k 'full' restorations there will be people to cater to them. Paying more does NOT automatically mean that you get more though - you still need to educate yourself properly.....

[62vwbeetle]

In life u usually get what u pay for. The less something costs the less time and effort had gone into it. I would rather pay a premium for good work from a reputable supplier that had a sustainable business and who will still be there in 3 years time when I need them.

No one gets rich off doing crap work and yes good suppers can also stuff up they are only as good as the people that work with them. It's hard to be the boss the mechanic the marketing guru the painter the businessman and client liaison. Especially in a small labour intensive business that requires specialist skills.

Bottom line is it is easy to be a behind screen expert with the anonymity of your online "handle" it's hard to deal fairly and face to face with a supper who has let u down as it is for suppers who have let clients down and worry about their reputations and livelyhood in this very small industry

[Derek]

The best way to express dissapointment with a job is direct with the supplier The public name and shame from behind a computer is not the way to go.

Please remember that I did NOT publicly name and shame anybody - Jacques chose to do that all by himself. My discussion was on value for money generally and not intended to attack anybody specifically. It was Jacques who made this thread personal.

[62vwbeetle]

Like i said it's about u get what u pay for.

Value is a function of quLity and price A 170k body restoration which includes cavity waxing sheet metal replacement rust treatment numerous layers of paint and clear and a resultant body that is straight as an arrow , good for another 40 years on the road and can double as a mirror based on its final finish is good value.

It is even better value whe. The car is worth over 1 million. To expect the same of a 50 k restoration is insanity.

I agree on the education of clients and I abhor the anonimity of online complaints. Talk straight be honest communication is the key. I know what it is like to spend hard earned money but the resultant value is always back to price and quality.

To find a supper that delivers more value is a win and when u do U should tell then and keep their business in good standing as in the end it is only those suppliers who continue to deliver beyond the expectation thT survive.

It's hard when u pay school fees to bad suppliers. Done that a few times myself as I have tried to seek better vLue options when all I was really looking for was cheap.

Merry Xmas and happy holidays