No more posts from me on this Forum...

[Derek]

I joined ACVWSA soon after I became an avid VW camper fan and collector. I saw it as a great place to hang out with hopefully like-minded people, and I have had a great experience with some forum members when it came to buying and selling of hard-to-find spares, etc. I have tried to immerse myself in the community as much as my time has permitted, and participated in debates on various issues which affect the members here. I launched Classic Camper Hire because I believe that our rare vehicles need to be out there, living and providing memories for a new generation of VW enthusiasts. I am not a purist as some on this forum are, and I make no apologies for this. I love driving my Westy and home-made Dormobile with their V6 conversions, and so have the more than a hundred people who have hired them from me since I launched the business.

I have bought, owned and sold around 15 kombi's and campers over this period as I build up my fleet of the most suitable vehicles. This involved lots of travelling around and viewing, driving and evaluation of probably around 50 kombi's and campers. I'm still no expert, but I have learnt a lot about Bay window kombi's with such an intense exposure to them, and their mechanical and other issues. I have always been willing to share my experiences and opinions with other enthusiasts - I thought that that was the whole idea of a community.

However, it seems that some members here disagree vehemently with this notion, and have no problem launching personal attacks when they don't like an opinion. To be honest, I can do without it. I'm quite content to no longer involve myself in this forum and keep my experiences and opinions to myself. Those abrasive, aggressive characters will continue to plague this forum, but I will no longer be part of it. Good luck guys

[fig]

Derek, AFAIK you are talking about one person. Before this post I had contacted that person by PM, as a moderator, and asked that he refrain from his personal attacks.

You must do what works for you. But I don't understand why you would leave the forums because of one person (who is easy enough to ignore), when you imply that your contribution creates value for many people on these forums. I don't always agree with your views, but I do think all views contributed here add value and every point of view we lose is a loss to the whole community these forums represent. That loss is a result of the choice you propose to make, not a result of the comments that have offended you. Think about it ...

You are not the only one who is threatening to leave these forums as a result of one person's way of communicating. I trust that person will review their communication style. And I also trust that none of us will punish the community as a whole because we are offended by one person.

[eben]

Hi Derek,

I received an email from another active forum member over the weekend which I just read this morning.
I don't frequent the forum as regularly as I used to because of my lack of time. I mainly do the maintenance but that's another topic.
I've looked at some of the recent posts and I do see what you are referring too. I have this problem however where I feel that people need to be able to voice their opinions, within rational limits, from both sides of the story without starting to attack people's character and person on a public forum.
My advice would always be that if you want to start insulting someone, do it in PM or better yet in-person
I would really like to the mods to be able to allow posts that fall within these rational limits as described above because to many other forums are over-moderated in my opinion.

In case anyone feels like a post is falling outside these rational limits, there is an easy way to report a post to a mod by using the exclamation mark button at the top of the post. This will flag it as something a mod should look at which would in some cases mean some discussion about the contents of the post.

I've not seen any recently reported posts, so please, if it is not too late, use this functionality(Also to all other members). Some people have a higher threshold for rationality than others so it is really up to a person to report.

And to those who think they might be guilty of causing offence, feel free to chip in on how you can assist in a productive way.

[Derek]

Thanks Fig and Eben for your input. In fact two long-standing members are responsible for my decision - Jacques and Sean. Both of these members seem to feel that bitter vitriol is the way to go on the forum. I find their attitude extremely distasteful and uncalled for. I actually have a lot of respect for Sean as a collector, which makes the whole experience even more sad. Unless both of them change their attitude I think more people will leave this forum and it will become a wasteland, which would be a great shame.

[retrovan]

The beauty of this here forum, is that it caters for the full, wide spectrum of VW Aircooled USERS.

And you are not the 1st being challenged, and you will not be the last.

I Too have had MUD thrown at me for my "Driving Pleasure" attitude to Aircooled Vw's as well as Jealousy.

But one has to understand that different Volks, have different outlooks, and attitudes to VW Aircooleds.

Lets go through a few, maybe others would like to add to this list.;-

The Purist, Nothing you do or say is good enough, cost has no boundaries, and Overcapitalisation is but a dirty word to them.
what ever you present as a object, will be picked aparts to the N'th degree.

The Envious on-looker, Is the guy that wanted to do the same thing you have done, but did not want to do the effort, did not want to do the research,
Was convinced that all the best where taken by the rich guys, could not pull the trigger when opportunity struck.

The mass collector, the guy that wants to buy up everything, to save it all from the riffraff that want to "Frankenstein" it all.
The guys that want to buy it for below cost, but once they have it want to sell it for the Earth.

The Business guy, that looks at all comments as being anti-their business. That all things will effect their effort to conduct yet another sale.

The "Joy Rider" The guy that wants to take a project, and turn it into "HIM" the thing that will give him self and maybe his family a truck load of JOY and FUN. He will paint it the incorrect colour, he will mess with the motor, he will fit mode's on that where never designed when the car was built.

The Store'er, the guy that will find a million reasons why he should store it of use it in a different way, just to have it and to preserve it for the future.

The main thing about ALL of the above, is that the VW Aircooleds, will still be preserved by every one of the above and will be here in Hundreds of years in some way or form, and then the Purists can put them all back together, and place it into the Museum behind a glass cage, for little boys to get their sticky finger prints all over the glass and the old Janitor wishing this thing will burn down, so he does not have to keep cleaning the glass all night .

So the moral of the story is, .......

This here forum needs each and every one of its members to preserve our addiction.

Just remember, you and only YOU can decide which Posts you read, and what you think of the author, silently in your own home.

So..... may I be the 1st to welcome you back........

omo
Herman

[splitbusahollic]

I'm really sorry... !

not for what i said, but for the way this is being handled. Imagine if every member on here that felt a little "challenged " or " Picked" on had to post
" sorry , I'm leaving " cause i feel im being personally, abrasively or what ever words they can find , call it victimized.. then there would be no one left !! if i think back of some of Vader's posts ...or even Blitz ?? .. there have been many locked threads, and you know what ?? they all made the forum interesting, exiting and awesome !~!what has become of the forum we loved and enjoyed so much ?? a bit of digging , banter , joking , challenging one another ??? all seems lost. i look sometimes at the bottom of the forum ..it shows who is "on" and it is a lot different from 2 or 3 years ago...so what about getting a little bit of excitement going by starting a nice fiery debate on a topic i ask myself.... then get met with a brick wall of resistance with PM's flying like a school boy Friday night session ! all because someone said they are "leaving" because they felt that someone Else's opinion about their post became personal !! then why am i spending My personal "at home" time on here instead of watching TV or talking with my family ,i don't benefit from this forum in any financial way at all , In fact i ask all my restoration clients, and all of them have never even heard of the forum !, the reason i'm here is because i love VW Aircooled's !and it's my passion, My Life and what i do Every single day cause i love it and not only for money , and i have driven VW buses all my life since i was 20 !! till today.

So Derek , go back and look at your early posts ...." He who casts the first stone..." the great book says... then ask yourself why would anyone give you a little stick regarding your opinionated posts on every bus for sale?.... the thing i don't really understand is that the name of this forum is quite self explanatory .... "Aircooled VW SA"....now isn't most of your campers proudly "water cooled" ?...i think 5 years ago you actually wouldn't have been allowed to post on here only owning water cooled buses...but things have obviously changed. I like some of your posts...and i think you are doing a fabulous job collecting and hiring out your campers !! and i seriously don't mind you having water cooled buses, But when you saw one of our buses at Berg motors in CT you had a lot to say about our restoration quality and pricing ...and i had to just eat it up....now that you are getting a bit of your own medicine back you want to "leave" ??
When the "Leon Samba debacle" was aired on the forum ..there were no interference from the moderators or Eben, and i am sorry to say but Leon was really looking for sensationalism, and could have contacted me personally via email,PM or any other media to solve His personal issues, instead of turning this forum into a "Hello Peter " site as he did , but not one of the moderators stopped Him, locked the post , or contacted Me to Get "both sides" of the story...it was left to run it's course...and i took the punishment and moved on .....I DIDN'T LEAVE, OR POSTED "I"M LEAVING NOW" ....no after all that i stayed and am still here loving everything "Aircooled VW" so ask yourself...was your post to leave validated because i bit you a bit of clean, tongue i cheek shit ?? and i get told to be less "abrasive" in my relies because other members are feeling offended ????
if i did offend anyone in any of my replies then please feel free to PM me and quote the post in which i did offend you, and i will personally call you and apologize. just remember to leave your number in the PM
i contribute a lot to the VW aircooled fraternity in this Country....We are even assisting VWSA in finding parts to restore the cars for the Museum... i have brought Klassic Fab to SA plus a load more suppliers...i have invested a huge amount of my personal money in something i love, to make it easier for everyone else, and there are a lot of people that appreciate that and we are about to launch something very special soon !.. But, there are always the odd critic as with anything in life....so just "suck it up" and move on .
if i had to leave this Forum every time 2 people didn't like what i said , i would have left many time s over ~!! ....Derek don't run so fast Bru !
IMO...like Herman always says..

[jolas]

well ........... hmmmmm

Jacques - you are too flippen expensive with your prices and far too cock-sure of yourself, what a frieking drama-queen, glory hallelujah. But man alive without you, we (the kombi nutters) would be pretty screwed. What to do - how to get da green Columbian panels to blessed ZA shores, all the trim, door handles, rubbers. You have invested plenty bucks in your travels to source the bits we need. For a jonny-come-lately to split busses bitch I am astounded by what you have built up in PE - it truly is quite remarkable.

Derrick, you are such a pain in the smelly ass (as per fig). Your camper hire business has klapped my classic kombi hire business big time with your cheap rates. And most of your busses remind me of Darth Vader.
Over 100 clients ???????? Well fok, well done uncle. 100 happy volks with good road trip memories - priceless - at the end of the day this IS what it is all about

Sean - this dog calls me a bitch and a moffie in my face and I am twice his age !!!!! But dammit, the knowledge this oke has accumulated, and the energy and committment to the hobby is mind blowing. A VW (or any other classic car) in his hands, is in safe hands. Sometimes you have to just shut yer ass and put up with what comes out of his trumpet when he blows it. If only he was'nt so flippen impatient and rude !!!!!!!!!!

We can't take these 4 wheelers with us when we depart the big planet, and we don't really have THAT much time here (ok Sean will have more time than us) so, lets try make another effort to get on with each other. We all have something, or, some other qualities that the other does'nt have that we are supposed to be sharing with each other here on ACVWSA.

I'm pretty lost without this forum, to be honest it has become bit boring , always the same peeps, blah blah blah - lets try doing something different here - the new okes must wondering what the heck is going on here - eaten SO much popcorn by now I'm sure .......... LOL

[retrovan]

.......the new okes must wondering what the heck is going on here - eaten SO much popcorn by now I'm sure .......... LOL

My feeling exactly,

So much going on, and Fresh out of Pop Corn......

The inhumanity of it all....




Herman

[sean]

Perhaps I should bring up some old debates from a few years ago, it seems we are a bunch of moffies now. Several years ago we had some quite harsh words to say, but I don't recall anyone running away from the forum because of it.

There are 7 pages to read through here.....

http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopi ... hilit=dick

[Tony Z]

I think I have to agree with everyone here... some people are a bit too crass in the way they "talk" but some people are a bit too sensitive. And this isnt pointing fingers at anyone as it flows back and forth amount people here and everywhere. Often the overly sensitive people are crass and the loud crass people are overly sensitive.
I said this to you, but how dare you say it to me?

I, among many other people here, enjoy the site, contribute where I can and thus get a lot of joy from the site. Sometimes drama, scandal and sensation/politics all add to the enjoyment. And lets be honest, most of us are adults and should act that way.
If some keyboard jockey offends you to the point of throwing your toys out of the cot, then maybe you need to eat some cement to harden up. So long as people are not openly attacking a business or your personality for no reason then there isnt really a reason to be offended. If someone attacks you for no reason, what does it say about them and their personality?
Remember the saying: be careful when arguing with an idiot, people watching might not be able to tell the difference.

I am not telling people to leave the site or to stay on the site. If you get offended and choose to leave, then it is nice to know why so that hopefully something can be done about it or we can watch for it in the future. We recently had one such email from a member who hasnt chipped in here. But then again, we have had some members who have posted openly that they are leaving about 15 times already and they still hung around. Maybe its so they could get an "I am important" feeling when we all asked them to stay, maybe its so that they could stir up things a little, maybe they did get pissed off and left, only to return later... whatever the reason, we all have our choices and we make them as we feel we need to.

Me personally, I enjoy a little activity on the site. Projects are currently slow as I think cash is sparse, so whats wrong with a little drama? If nothing it gets people active. Want proof? Look at this thread, its possibly the most active thread we have had for a while. So, if you want drama or want to feel important, then go ahead, do it, get your fix. Just keep the personal insults and business attacks to a minimum and only when warranted. And think how you'd feel if the exact same thing was done to you.

[RikusVisser]

I missed 7de Laan last night but now I have had my daily fix.

As a newbie I cannot comment much but I can say that I have learned a lot from not just current, but old threads posted by all individuals above. Will be a pity to see anyone leave. You guys are all pros in your respective fields and us newbies need your advice, rude or not.

[eben]

Perhaps I should bring up some old debates from a few years ago, it seems we are a bunch of moffies now. Several years ago we had some quite harsh words to say, but I don't recall anyone running away from the forum because of it.

There are 7 pages to read through here.....

http://www.aircooledvwsa.co.za/viewtopi ... hilit=dick

Thanks for the trip down mammary lane

Sent from my K1_turbo using Tapatalk

[Derek]

I've read the input from various members to this thread with great interest, and of course, much of what has been said is perfectly valid. I'm not new to forums, and as an active member on a wide range of forums I am quite familiar with the cut and thrust of debates, etc. between often very different personalities with a wide range of agenda's. I have no problem mixing it up when I have to to defend a valid point of view or opinion. So don't think that for a minute that I am leaving the forum because of one or two comments made by two individuals in an isolated case. I have received emails from people who have actually left this site unannounced because of the behaviour of two members in particular on an ongoing basis.

Even though Jacques has apparently been warned by admin and moderators about his behaviour on the forum, you can see by his response that he just can't find it in himself to apologize. Instead he will try and rationalize his behaviour until he's blue in the face. Nobody is questioning the role he plays in keeping the VW tradition alive in SA. It's just his behaviour on this forum that is the issue. Swearing, direct personal attacks, etc. are just not acceptable on a public forum. Let's not try and excuse such behaviour by implying that the complainant is in some way to blame or weak. If members break forum rules then warn them, and then ban them if they persist. A bully should not be welcome here. Without them a forum is a much friendlier place to be.

You have a very valuable public resource in this site, and it is up to all members, regardless of their perceived status, to keep it healthy and alive. Attacking fellow members for whatever reason is just not healthy behaviour, and it worries me that some posters on this thread think it is. Maybe this attitude is a reflection of their own personal issues or approach to life. I joined this forum to share my experiences and resources with the community - I did not join to have to deal with personal attacks and abuse - and I'm sure neither did any of the other members. I have seen some great websites and forums wither and die because of the problems highlighted here. Eventually all the 'good' guys leave, and the negative, bitter guys remain to attack and feed on the newbies who wander onto the forum unaware. Eventually a once great resource is a wasteland, with no forum activity because people are to scared to post anything for fear of a mauling. Please guys, don't let it get to that here - what you have is too valuable.

[splitbusahollic]

Even though Jacques has apparently been warned by admin and moderators about his behaviour on the forum, you can see by his response that he just can't find it in himself to apologize. Instead he will try and rationalize his behaviour until he's blue in the face. Nobody is questioning the role he plays in keeping the VW tradition alive in SA. It's just his behaviour on this forum that is the issue. Swearing, direct personal attacks, etc. are just not acceptable on a public forum. Let's not try and excuse such behaviour by implying that the complainant is in some way to blame or weak. If members break forum rules then warn them, and then ban them if they persist. A bully should not be welcome here. Without them a forum is a much friendlier place to be.

Derek, you obviously have a personal issue with me. From what i can see is that this thread has developed into a thread about the Forum and not about Me as a person or You.
Please explain to me what i should apologize to you for ??...and please can you be so kind as to quote some of these "swearing, direct personal attacks" as examples for me to see where i have been such a Bad Boy ?
i gave my opinion about your comments on buses for sale, and other members have often expressed to Me how that irritated them a little every time you threw your expert opinion out there .... did you regard that as a direct personal attack ? shame , sorry man , didn't mean it in that way.
feel better now ?
i am not a buddy of yours , in fact i have never even met you , yet you analyze me like a good psychologist as you mention in your first two sentences of your reply.
Maybe you and i should just refrain from commenting on each others posts from now on , and that will make the forum peaceful again.
Interesting to see you regard me as a Bully !!

[fig]

Jacques, I think your response above is a perfect example of where it would be appropriate to take the discussion into PM.

From my perspective you obviously both have personal issues with each other. It's up to you two whether you resolve those issues, but the rest of us don't need (or want) to witness the process.