is it the Time of THE BAY?

[bugspray]

having a look at the active topics on the forum as early as this morning shows a takeover of late bus posts, questions,projects,sales etc.
i remember when this place was almost only beetle and Split bus.

is it more a change of the times and Bay's are more available or popular, or has the discovery channel show prices for Splits just simply made bays more appealing?

I doubt i will ever afford a Split with current market values and repair costs, But I am a bigger Baywindow fan anyway.

[bugspray]

haha

[Eugene]

As with Splitties, the early Bays and even Late Bays will become more scarce and eventually we will see a lot of T25/T3s on here. You saw it here first!

[jolas]

With split screen Kombis becoming more expensive and difficult to find, it is inevitable that their bay window counterparts will have their "turn". Those to keep an eye open for would be ANY model (SC, DC, panel van, camper, bus) with original paint and that is not molested, nice original seats and good condition upholstery. The factory built early bay window campers i.e Westfalia, Dormobile, Cox, etc would be best to score if you are looking for a good useful investment as well. Then the sunroof Deluxe models (really scarce), Deluxes, the later bay Executive models, etc, etc will also hold their value well. The trick is to buy a really nice model with no major work to be done on it for as good a price as possible. (you will probably still have to do the motor, brakes, suspension, etc, etc anyway for peace of mind if you intend to use the bus properly).
If it is'nt for investment purposes only, and its in fairly good nick, and you don't mind tinkering, swearing now and then, customizing to your needs and taste (especially with campers), then you will get the utility value out of it plus I'm sure what you paid for the bus, and the value of your improvements as time goes on.
But don't give up on split busses. They are still popping up and out of the woodwork, and these ones have been kept nice and dry and out of sight. Now more than ever it is a case of being in the right place at the right time. And the kids don't always know the value of the bus when they push it out of the garage when Uncle Stan has kicked the bucket. Don't rely on Gumtree and OLX only. As the Fig says, the Universe will give you a split if you deserve it hehehe !!!

[fig]

You've answered your own question. As Eugene and Paul said.

Yes, it's the time of the bay. Now that we're seeing late baywindows with asking prices over R200k, the time to buy is now ... unless you're happy to wait until T3 buses start fetching real money.

Some of the serious bus collectors (Sean) are already investing in T3 buses while nobody else wants them.

As I said in another post, they're not making any more classic cars, while we continue to make more people at an exponential rate. That can only drive prices up.

We're also on the cusp of a paradigm shift in private transportation. The days of the internal combustion engine are numbered. Same with the idea of owning your own private conveyance. The future is electric and shared.

What I'm calling "the Golden Age of Motoring", the period more or less from 1945 to 1990, represents the personal freedom of the 20th century, which is being encroached on every day, mainly because there are more and more people. Nostalgia for that era is growing, even among people who were born late in the 20th century. Owning a classic car is a way to bring back that feeling of lost freedoms. The fact that many people are buying classic cars who weren't even born when those cars were made, suggests that this will be a growing market for some time to come.

[64 Notchback]

Maybe I should buy this one then

[sean]

Currently, there are quite a few split window kombi activities and restorations on the go, its just not active on the forum. Many of the past split bus owners were greedy and exported there's, now they complain and have nothing.....

If anyone wants a split bus, you can actually buy one today, immediately, they are quite freely available. You just got to have the money to pay for it. A neighbour of mine at home was looking for one (for his birthday and knows absolutely nothing about kombis) and bought one straight away, he just paid R600k. Look, I don't want to pay R600k for any car, but the average guy in this country doesn't seem to have a problem coughing that up for a Hilux double cab or a Fortuner (there's thousands everywhere) or maybe again like 90% of this country, its not theirs and they just renting it from a bank....

[brucet]

To me half the appeal in a split window is finding one in original condition in some shed somewhere, and not some fancy rebuilt one that costs an arm and a leg and more, and that I would then be too scared to drive in case it gets scratched etc.....and to be honest even if i had 500/600+ k in the bank to spend on a car, i probably would not spend it on a split window. My desire to own one is really high but it is not that high. Perhaps thats the difference between car collectors who "invest" in vehicles and car collectors who just want to use their vehicles and couldn't care what their values are?

If i am meant to own a Splitty I will find one at a price im willing to pay. Until then I will just keep drooling over them and dreaming of owning one.

WRT Baywindows, from my perspective these buses seem to have become fashionable to own. I think the late baywindow is the most popular as it is the only "classic" bus that is pretty affordable, reliable, cheap to maintain and is easy to find.... but that too seems to be changing - perhaps due to them becoming popular? Will the fad last?
I read a post somewhere, i think it was one of Figs, where he was saying that its basically about reliving good memories which i believe is true. Most people that grew up in the 80s and 70s that are in their 40's and 50s now, want to and can afford to relive those memories a little.
When i was a kid several friends and family owned baywindow buses and in my teens while living in Salisbury/Harare in the 80s my father had a split window that he used for his business. Some really good memories attached to those buses and perhaps half the reason I want them!

[retrovan]

This is how I see it...

The Split has a mysterious attraction to it as most have seen or know someone that had one, also the splity was the 1st affordable Holiday bus, and so it draws us all into memory lane.

BUT..

In fact the splity is an most uncomfortable bus to drive, its not a long distance dream but a nightmare, that is why so many guys lust after one, and once they have it, find it to be an disappointment, and sell it off.

you can see it here on the forum, they get it rebuilt at an high cost, run it for its 1st road trip, and then sell it.

So now you have the same as has been happening in the rest of the world, the die hard's, store them in museums and the rest convert them to make them more drivable.

But..

The Bay has a much better drive, it has more comfortable seating, can be driven long distances without wanting to commit suicide.

Has speed, more reliable, still has the nostalgia of the peace and hippy era, and could even be the place of conception for most of us.

Very little has to be done to the Bay, and therefore you will see that most Bays around the world, stay unmolested and enjoyed by the new generation.

Will the next generation T3 have the same effect, NO, as most where just taxi's or delivery vans with very little memory's infused in them.

So my take on this whole thing is that the splits will land up with the Jones's, and the rest of us enjoying the past will be driving Bays........

Herman

[acpaterson]

Well put Herman..

[sean]

Come now Herman, REAL bus drivers, drive Splits.

My splits are original and I drive them everywhere. They are not modified nor do they sit parked in a garage unused or moved on a trailer. Original splits are perfectly drivable. Many others are also driving theirs regularly. Yes, I admit bays are more comfortable than splits (they still not luxurious), but if that's your concern, why not just drive a T6? Compared to today's standards, bay's are also hideously uncomfortable.

22 years ago when I got my first baywindow, nobody wanted them, even splits. They were also just another common used second hand car that nobody wanted. I wouldn't dare take such a thing to a car show. You would pay on average between R500 to R5000, I mean, Paul purchased his early bay Westy for R1500 in good running condition and this was just the other day. Now all of sudden, everyone thinks they are desirable and jump on the bandwagon most with the intention of making money off it, or as Herman says, some silly dream they had of owning one but when it actually comes to driving and dealing with the issues, they can't and rather want their SUV back. It would be nice though if the prices could fall or even better, become worthless, then I could just save more kombis and people would stop seeing them as money and appreciate them for being one of the greatest most practical vehicles ever made. I accept the way they were made and its also for that very reason why I appreciate them so dearly.

Will the next generation T3 have the same effect, NO, as most where just taxi's or delivery vans with very little memory's infused in them.
Herman

Herman, I am going to frame this statement you have made and ask you this same question again in 20 years. Just as you said, everyone said the same about bays and splits, they were no different at the time!!!! I can assure you, that at the time when my generation grew up in the 90's, every second family had a David Kramer kombi and had many happy memories travelling in them. The T3 is a South African Icon, being assembled and later made here for 22 years.

So my take on this whole thing is that the splits will land up with the Jones's, and the rest of us enjoying the past will be driving Bays........
Herman

Myself and many others WILL still be driving Splits for many years to come.

[retrovan]

Sean I fully agree to disagree with you on some of this.

Come now Herman, REAL bus drivers, drive Splits.

...... Yes, I admit bays are more comfortable than splits

Thank You.

Now all of sudden, everyone thinks they are desirable and jump on the bandwagon most with the intention of making money off it, or as Herman says, some silly dream they had of owning one but when it actually comes to driving and dealing with the issues, they can't and rather want their SUV back.

How many "Splitty Lovers" and Hard Core" collectors on this here forum as well as in clubs have got into collecting Splittys and are now major dealers, and exporting everything in sight, milking every emotion to make a fast buck,

Yes you still get the few that do it for the love of the car, and drive their stash for pure pleasure, but these even here on this forum, you can count on one hand.

Myself and many others WILL still be driving Splits for many years to come.

Yes , you my friend, may, but many other I am not so sure about.

But may I ask you, just for fun, At the end, when you travel to the great beyond, will the cars be sold on auction, to make money, will they be donated to a museum. ??? Yes you leave it to the Kids.....But......





Herman

[Jdt1976]

Yes , you my friend, may, but many other I am not so sure about.

But may I ask you, just for fun, At the end, when you travel to the great beyond, will the cars be sold on auction, to make money, will they be donated to a museum. ??? Yes you leave it to the Kids.....But......





Herman
[/quote]

Funny you say this. Me and Sean had this exact conversation two months ago. I said if my kids are not interested in the cars when I am old I will donate it to a museum. Not going to let them sell it just for money.

But, no one knows what the future will be like. Maybe I would have to sell to survive or have to imigrate and need to export to be able to buy something with the same value overseas. That's not the plan but no one knows the future.

One thing that I find strange is this "bus" craze. Madbones
was advertising a Karmann Cabrio and there was no real interest, and a bay kombi sells for more? Maybe the kombi is more practical to some? Strange....

Everyone know the vintage car market is booming and like Fig said they don't produce more so we all know the prices won't get better.

Was spending the day yesterday with a Merc guy. If you thought we have flippers and chasing prices with our VW's it is insane with them. The figures and profits are only more with them. Greed...

[sean]

But may I ask you, just for fun, At the end, when you travel to the great beyond, will the cars be sold on auction, to make money, will they be donated to a museum. ??? Yes you leave it to the Kids.....But......


Herman

This is always a little difficult to know what our worldwide situation will be then, but for me, the most ideal situation would be if my son would carry on with the passion of preserving and enjoying them. It would be an absolute shame if I decided to sell everything that I have worked so hard for to simply take the cash to live some lazy ass life in front of the television, no thanks.

A "museum" would in theory be the next best option. This would hopefully preserve the cars and give the needed attention. What museum though, VWSA auto pavilion where they let their collection stand outside in the rain??? A South African municipal museum where the staff will strip parts off for scrap metal? A private one, like Johan Rupert's Franschoek Motor museum? It's quite tough.

[brucet]

VWSA auto pavilion where they let their collection stand outside in the rain???

Seriously? Thats terrible!

I agree you will be lucky to find a museum that you could trust or that maybe interested in displaying it/them - i dont know how many there are around. If you are not worried about the money you could also look at leaving it to a private collector or enthusiast that you know will treat them the way you would like them to be treated.