To Porsche or not to Porsche...that is my question

[Cagey]

Hi Everyone. I own a 1960 Karmann Ghia that has a beetle engine in it but not the original engine. I am an originality fanatic so, if I had the original engine, I would definately prefer it. I have always wished a KG had a bit more oomph, so I have been toying with the idea of putting in a twin port with some basic upgrades. HOWEVER...I have come across a Porsche 912 engine for sale.....and, as they say in afrikaans, my gat jeuk!... I would welcome some opinions here??


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[Dawie]

Depends on your expectations. You will be told (rightly so), that it's cheaper to build a performance Vw engine.
If however you do have good type 616/36 engine (from 60's 912) lying around...

Some similarity to your pre-61 karmann's engine. Not to be confused with the industrial version of that series of engine. (Some say the low rpm industrial engine differ, some use a non-counterweighted crank, etc.) Although one could then try to source the required 616/36 parts.
Would certainly be nice car if you can afford this.

There was also the 1976 912E, only lhd, 6000 made mostly for the USA market. These used an uprated vw type 4 (411/kombi) engine.

Otherwise, even a mildly modified twinport vw engine with twin carbs and basic mild headwork done by an aircooled expert... (As in three angle valve job, some magic to valves, versus simply crude hollowed out port job)... might do the trick. Or you could do more mods.

[Tony Z]

What Dawie said is all accurate...

I'm one of the guys who say that building a decent 1600 is the way to go.
Twin carbs, good exhaust and some magic in the heads and you are up to around 70hp, throw in a little more budget and its not hard to get 100hp out of a 1600.
The sky is the limit. I recently finished building an engine for an oval bug that looks like a stockish 1600, but is 2109cc, with the aim of getting 140-150hp out of it once it is fully up and running.

[Cagey]

Thanks Dawie and Tony - thanks for your advice. I realise that a rebuilt 1600 is the most sensible way to go. Its just not what I want to hear. I like the homage to the heritage that the 912 engine will bring. But as I am only a one-weekend-a-month tinkerer I think I would be plukking the proverbial lat for my own gat with that 912 engine.
Also - its not about adding too many horses. If I had the inclination to go extreme I would probably not want to do it with a 912 engine. I think a stock 912 is on its own a classic and should be kept stock.
Another also - once you start adding horses - at what point does it become too much for a stock beetle. When do you have to do more than just adding disc-brakes?

Jurgen

[Tony Z]

If you want the heritage of the early 912 that you mention, then go for it. The biggest problem you will have is finding parts should you need them. Keep your eyes and ears open and do your homework. There is nothing worse than having a project stand because you cannot find some arbitrary item to finish it.
But I fully understand your idea. I did the same thing when I decided to keep my bus T1 as a tribute instead of going T4.

The point at which the horses gets too much is mostly based upon the driver. Are you going to race it or cruise? That makes a huge difference. My biggest advice would be to make sure your engine doesnt move around under power and you do what you can to reduce wheel hop (this breaks gearboxes very rapidly with any engine)

[Donovan D]

If you need some 912 carbs I have two sets (4 carbs) and 3 rebuild kits - Solex 40 PII-4.
I was going to use these on my beetle but ended up not using it.
Unfortunately no manifolds or filter housing, only carbs

[Cagey]

Thanks Donovan. Will keep that in mind. I am, however, far from having made up my mind on the matter.

[Tony Z]

you know you want it...

[Cagey]

I KNOW!!!!!!!!

[Dawie]

One could also do a "mystery" once off well planned German old-school look-alike. Like the Okrasa/Oettinger or Theo Decker versions of the time. (Which was, in a way, attention to detail wise, above the level of common USA tuned versions of the time, actually the opposite.) Keep people guessing about engine spec.
(Gene Berg "bedframe" crude carb linkage of the time comes to mind). Usa had fuel as cheap as water at the time, and cheap performance parts, so short engine life was ok for them.

Maybe do the 912/356 oil filter lookalike, Breather tower, etc.
You could use oil bath vw air filters on top of the twin carbs, either early round type or later 60's beetle oval shape filters. Keep in mind, on the Ghia height might be a slight issue, but sideways no problem).

An engine built also to have good fuel economy, long life, and reasonable drivability is so much nicer and practical if used as daily driver. Built "smaller and smarter". (Standard weight flywheel, venturies no bigger than absolutely necessary, cam on conservative side) if used in traffic versus full time racing. (Lightened flywheel, unless racing, is a real pain in traffic, been there).

[Cagey]

Hi Dawie,
It took me a while to understand what you meant by "mystery once-off". I love the concept and I love the effort people put in to achieve that special look. However, that would not be my reason to do it. I don't have the mechanical skill to imagine and then create such a work of art and my purpose with the Porsche engine would be to put something special into a special car which then also pays tribute to the heritage as well as ticks the increase performance box. However, if the prospect of the Porsche engine is too complex (I have not procure it yet) I would rather stick to having a 1600 twin port conservatively modified and rebuilt to achieve at least the increase performance tickbox.