Karmann Ghia woes

Webster · Post by **Webster** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:33 pm

Please can one of you boffs help. I am rebuilding a 62 KG - have been for the past year. Its a bitza with 1302 front and rear end bolted onto the pan. The engine is an ex-industrial Porsche 1680cc unit but with the correct 912 carbs/flywheel and other bits. When the pan was complete and rolling with the engine mounted I drove it around and it was fine - and I was able to sort out the engine and suspension. I then mounted the body after quite a bit of cutting, and most recently raised the rear torsion bars as the back end was sagging a bit.
Recently the starter motor started to give trouble, and I replaced the original with a 6 volt unit (the car is 12v) with the correct teeth mesh and shaft length for the flywheel. This solved the problem, but last week a new fault developed. Whilst the starter motor sounds as if its turning the engine does not turn. However if you put the car in gear and hit the starter the engine car leaps forward or backwards depending on which gear it is in. Also if you place a socket on the crankshaft pulley nut and turn it the car will move backwards and forwards.
If you put the car in gear and push it the engine turns - but I have not tried to push start it as I dont want to do any damage if anything has come adrift.
Anyone got any ideas? PLEEZE help!!

Post by **fig** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:37 pm

Sounds like your starter is not engaging. Probably a worn Bendix drive.

Webster · Post by **Webster** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:46 pm

Tks Fig - but how come it goes backwards and forwards when you start it in gear?

Post by **fig** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:31 pm

No idea. Maybe it's engaging sometimes and not others.

Does it always turn when in gear and not when it's in neutral? Very mysterious.

Post by **Tony Z** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:08 pm

I had a problem with the starter once where the fork that moves the bendix out was worn. So only sometimes the bendix would move out.

what was wrong with the original starter?

Webster · Post by **Webster** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:05 pm

Ya - the car will move when you hit the starter with it in gear every time - when its in neatral it SOUNDS as if the starter is engaging but the engine does not turn - every time.
The original starter was a 12 volt, but the flywheel was from a Super 90 Porsche which was designed for the coarser 6volt teeth - so altho' it worked it was not a good idea. Before fitting the reworked starter I checked the flywheel teeth and they were OK after a bit of facing off. When the new starter was fitted the engine started up perfect every time until this most recent development. I tell you this has really got me!!

Post by **eben** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:47 pm

next time you start it in gear, put the clutch in and see if it starts the engine....

Post by **Tony Z** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:25 pm

you have absolutely got me....

The only thing I can possbly think of is that the starter isnt properly fitted to the gearbox - 2 things I would check

1) are the bolts tight and the starter fitting onto the box properly.

2) I think the 6V starter uses a different bushing in the bellhousing that that of the 12V starter. If this is right, did you change the bush?

It could be that the extra load of the car is moving the starter into a better position, while with only the load of the engine, the starter doesnt remain engaged on the flywheel

what sound does the starter make? In both situations? what is the sound difference?

BTW, so you know,
anytime you start the engine, in any manual car, you are supposed to engage the clutch, whether or not you are in Neutral. It takes the gearbox out of the equation and makes the starters life a little easier.

lowlight · Post by **lowlight** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:53 pm

What about the clutch side?

Post by **Tony Z** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:17 pm

what about it?

Post by **Pine** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:40 am

Hi Webster, any updated pics of your project?

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:42 am

I haven't heard from my chassis builder in quite some time...perhaps one of you bastards stole it, and he's too afraid to tell me?

Webster · Post by **Webster** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:15 pm

Yup - have progressed a bit since the last pic. Now body on, full interior re-do -sorted in most areas, but still the persistant engine wont turn when you hit the starter, as described above. Havent really checked it out as but fixing the daughters KG which had a loose fan and leaking oil cooler, but thats done so intend to get back to the project car.
Will post an updated pic soon.

Ryss · Post by **Ryss** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:51 pm

Hi Webster,

Your problem sounds almost impossible. Only thing I can suggest is ---Do you have compression on the engine when you turn it over by hand?

When u use a 6v starter on a 12v system it swings the engine very fast, but you should still hear the difference between a starter that has not engaged and one that has.

I assume you do not have confirmation that the motor does not turn when you crank the starter, but it just sounds as if the motor is not turning because the starter spins so fast... if that makes any sense.

The Pic brings back memories.. Like the fuel tank and wiring job. LOL

Webster · Post by **Webster** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:51 am

At last!! - got around to pulling the motor ( not easy as there is zero space between rear of engine and firewall) and gues what - the flywheel remained on the gearbox main shaft! - Seems the securing nut had come loose and sheared the eight (yes eight) pins (remember Porsche 912 motor)... So explained why the car would move forward when in gear and started, but doesnt explain some of the other issues.
Have cleaned up the flywheel secuting nut threads (and crankshaft threads too), and bought the 'roller pins' from local hardeware shop. New oil seal and its ready to go back in - BUT this time with 350 ft lbs torque.
Hope no other problems from now on - will post pic of car soon.

Aircooled VW South Africa

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