Gear oil for '53 Beetle

[Lieb]

Hi.
I have driven my 53 beetle for 300 miles since I bought it in January '08 no problem until I decided to check the gearbox oil it was a grey muck so I replaced it with Castrol EP 90 like the manual says but now the gears become sticky as soon as she warms up, the gearchange was smooth with the grey muck but it becomes very difficult to change gears,it is OK when it is cold.Any suggestions. You also confused me with the engine oil on this forum I filled it up with Castrol Magnatech but then there was a sort of knock when the engine was cold I replaced the oil with Castrol for high milage engines 20W40 and it is quiet now.Is it a better oil?
Thanks
Lieb

[fig]

EP90 is correct. More important than the weight of the oil is the standard it complies with. GL5 is the current standard, but is no good for old gearboxes as it accelerates wear of brass syncro rings. You must use a GL4 spec gear oil for ACVWs.

[Tony Z]

sounds like your bearbox might need a thicker oil. Try to see if you can find a multigrade gear oil... 90/110 or something like that. Take the 90 down but dont increase it, the second number "adds" viscosity (thickness) as the oil warms up.

I think the magnatec is a 10W40 oil. Thinner than the high milage. It is made for newer cars and newer clearances and not as thick as the high milage oil. You prob find that the oil was passing past the bearings too easily and then your oil pressure was lower, which made the knocking sound a real metal to metal knock. Also the additive package is slightly different

Dont quote me, thats the thoughts I am having...

[Lieb]

Thanks Guys
I have ordered a workshop manual but it is taking a while,thanks that I can bug you in the meantime.
Lieb

[forcecooled]

I have a manual, If you need specs or info I could let you have it.
Cheers
Bill
084-612-1389

by the way, that grey stuff that was in your transmission was probably an addative .
It was very popular in the earlier cars.
i used to put in a tube everytime I changed the trans oil.
The stuff I used was graphite based and was called --------------
yes.

You should use a monograde oil in that motor. Something good like castrol, shell. total,mobil,etc.
You can get away with a 40 grade as long as you let it warm up before you boot it down the strip!

Also, use EP 90 gear oil in that, and any bug box.REMEMBER, the box and the diff share the same housing so you cant play with modern stuff that is designed for different style gears, diffs and selectors.Usually the problem is opposite to what you have, stiff changes when cold, and slick changes when hot!

Gee man I love that era bug -just talking about them brings back fond memories of my oval.
--can still still feel that roller pedal under my foot-----!
CHEERS AGAIN!

[forcecooled]

Just a silly observation--- no offence----

Usually transmissions that have too little oil behave like yours is doing now -----

It is full isin't it?

Cheers !

[forcecooled]

book says -----
It takes between 3.5 and 4 pints----roughly 4 litres

Did you drain the box from both the drain plugs, because it appears that some old oil remains captive if its not drained that way. Does it have a magnetic plugs ? What sort of stuff was stuck to the magnets when you removed them.?

Cheers

[forcecooled]

CORRECTION

Book says ------- 3.5 and 4 pints

one pint is about 500ml so it takes about 2 litres !

Apolagies --- its getting late !!

[Lieb]

Hi
Thanks for all the advice.The oil in the box was low and only about a litre came out so I only put about a litre back in. I bought new oil EP 90 GL4. I'll put it in on Saturday bought 3 litres and I'll make sure I put enough in this time. I see only one drain plug sort of near the bellhousing and then the one on the left of the gearbox where you fill up.The plugs does not seem to be magnetic but there was a lot of thick grey putty like stuff on the plug, remember this car was parked for the last three years and did not even got driven much for 17 years before that. So it seemed like everything just settled on the bottom of the box.

Lieb

[forcecooled]

What you do with the plug is wash it by swishing it around in petrol / parrafin without touching the container. This will wash the sludge away and leave the metallic slivers for you to see . I havent yet seen a bug with a non magnetic trans drain plug, unless it has been changed for a filler plug during the cars lifetime. do the plugs take a normal spanner or an allen key?
Those old split boxes seemed to have had two drain plugs Is it possible that the box has been changed for a later one ?
LIke I said, My manual even covers mechanical brakes and other quaint stuff of the time.
Bill

[Tony Z]

You should use a monograde oil in that motor.

Why? What is the point of using a thick oil on startup when you can use one that is much thinner at start, gets working faster, offers more protection and then when it warms up, operates better than the monograde? Sorry mate, I dont agree with you on this one....


I dont think it was mentioned, but the gearbox should be filled until you cant get any more oil into the top plug - with the car and box on a level surface.

[forcecooled]

Tony, all things being equal, I agree with you. Now , I am not an oil boffin, these are just my observations and findings over the years, but as far as I understand, A multigrade oil does not start cold at say 10W and when fully warmed becomes a 60 W. Maybe we should throw this one out to the boffs at Castrol for clarification. My understanding is that it offers the protection at both of the temp extremes of both the grades.

But, a large clearance (by design or is just plain worn) motor still runs, and sounds quieter with a good thixotropic mono than on a multi. In the old days we used to add Wyyns addative to GTX to thicken it up, untill the guys at castrol told us to not waste our money and just use a 30 or 40 W oil on its own. Using Mono also reduces oil consumption in these motors.

Anyway, its part of the lore to take it easy in your old bug untill it has warmed up.

Having said that, I used only futron (20w-60) in our newer engines and now use edge sport (10w-60) , definitely not magnitec (? w-40?)- not for aircooled clatterers !

Next time your briggs and stratton is clattering away with piston slap and imminent big end failure, fill it up with 40W and you will get another cutting season out of it before it goes bang !

Just a bit more O.F. rambling------ we will have to just agree to disagree !

[Bugger]

Where do you still buy Futron my wbx ran 250 000km on that

The other experience that I had before with gears grating and stiff shifting was changed to fully sinthetic oil and that solved the problem

I normally fill them with around 2.3 liter if you over fill and the Braether hole on the selector housing is blocked it tends to push the oil out at strange places you could fill it up to 2.5 l but preferably not more When the bug is jacked up on the left side it is obvious that you could put more

[Bugger]

You mentioned that it stood for most of its life and the muck that came out
a good Idea would be to "flush" the box then fill with around 1.5 liter drive it a few km drain that oil see how it looks if realy dirty then fill with new oil other wise refill with the oil that you just drained

[Tony Z]

Dont worry, I am no oil expert. And I do agree with your comments on Futron.
Unfortunately to my knowledge, it isne made anymore. I loved that stuff. Also tried magnatec once,,,, bang bang bang, clatter clatter after 1 trip on the highway. Gonna use it for breakin of my engine but then will move up to fully synth.